On the destruction of Kharkiv's statue.

The most extreme right wing activists do not approve of the peace deal with the East and are threatening to march on Kiev to oust Poroshenko and his colleagues.

Meanwhile, these bravos have declared war on statues of Lenin all over the country. Lenin statues and monuments have been removed or destroyed in many communities. On Sept. 28, over the objections of the city's mayor, a right wing mob tore down one of the tallest Lenin statues, in the city of Kharkiv.

Why did the vandals attack the Lenin statues? Perhaps because Lenin was Russian and a communist? Ironically, Lenin was particularly friendly to the idea of Ukrainian autonomy within the U.S.S.R. and opposed to heavy handed rule over minority nations by the Russian center. His government encouraged a flowering of Ukrainian language and culture ("Ukrainianization"). As a symbol of that, in 1918, when he surely had a lot of other issues to deal with, Lenin had ordered the construction of a statue of Ukraine's most beloved literary figure, Taras Schevchenko, in St. Petersburg (then Petrograd, later Leningrad, now St.Petersburg again). There are other status of him in Moscow and elsewhere.

Lenin died in January 1924 after a series of strokes left him unable to participate politically for many months. The encouragement of Ukrainian national culture and language was not curtailed until Stalin came into full power.

Lenin had some Jewish ancestry and was a firm enemy of anti-Semitism; possibly the anti-Semitism of the Ukrainian ultra-right could have played a role.

But most probably the destruction of the Lenin statues is meant by ultra right Ukrainian nationalists as a warning to their more left-leaning opponents not to put their heads above the parapet in the future, lest they meet the same fate as the statues-decapitation!

The mayor of Kharkiv promised to restore the statue.

http://peoplesworld.org/ukraine-knocking-down-the-lenin-statues/

I find that he elicits my respect and my disparagement in equal measure. You, mmoffitt, would probably find little to admire in the same personality type deployed in the service of the Spanish Inquisition. And yet, the desired end, the salvation of immortal souls, certainly trumped any transient suffering undergone by those ephemeral envelopes of flesh, provided the theological premise is accepted. Just so, if a global society of equality, prosperity and happiness from which economic exploitation has been banished is in prospect, a couple of transitional generations may perhaps need to be sacrificed, because their sufferings will be redeemed by the lives of their grandchildren and further progeny down the generations.

Lenin the Jesuit, unfortunately, would have tortured and burned in the service of the consensual hallucination called "God." I'm far from certain that Lenin the Bolshevik proceeded from much firmer theoretical ground. In any event, he was a man whose compassion for humanity in the abstract was so profound that it quite trumped, during his brief years in power, any sentimental considerations regarding humanity in particular. I know that among his admirers it's an article of faith that had Ilich remained in good health the USSR would have been spared the rigors of Stalinism and emerged within a few years as a beacon of justice and prosperity toward which the world's proletarians would have swarmed, overthrowing their oppressors. I'm more persuaded by Bertram Wolfe's thesis, in Three Who Made a Revolution, that Lenin's own style of leadership was a major factor in making possible the rise of a character like Stalin (however much this development alarmed Lenin at the end of his life), and that the original Bolshevik cannot be exonerated, much as his remaining champions would like him to be, from the bloody reign of his remarkable protégé.

A powerful character. He deserve to be remembered. Not certain he deserves to be celebrated—else his near contemporary, that Austrian guy, whose influence on XX century history was approximately as profound, ought to be depicted on plinths all over Europe.

Really, mmoffitt, contrarianism is one thing, but you seem on your side as uncritical of the "evidence" you advance on Putin's behalf as the most rabid neocons frothing for a new Cold War.

cordially,

Post #395,253 by mmoffitt 10/3/14 4:49:46 PM Reply	On the destruction of Kharkiv's statue. The most extreme right wing activists do not approve of the peace deal with the East and are threatening to march on Kiev to oust Poroshenko and his colleagues. Meanwhile, these bravos have declared war on statues of Lenin all over the country. Lenin statues and monuments have been removed or destroyed in many communities. On Sept. 28, over the objections of the city's mayor, a right wing mob tore down one of the tallest Lenin statues, in the city of Kharkiv. Why did the vandals attack the Lenin statues? Perhaps because Lenin was Russian and a communist? Ironically, Lenin was particularly friendly to the idea of Ukrainian autonomy within the U.S.S.R. and opposed to heavy handed rule over minority nations by the Russian center. His government encouraged a flowering of Ukrainian language and culture ("Ukrainianization"). As a symbol of that, in 1918, when he surely had a lot of other issues to deal with, Lenin had ordered the construction of a statue of Ukraine's most beloved literary figure, Taras Schevchenko, in St. Petersburg (then Petrograd, later Leningrad, now St.Petersburg again). There are other status of him in Moscow and elsewhere. Lenin died in January 1924 after a series of strokes left him unable to participate politically for many months. The encouragement of Ukrainian national culture and language was not curtailed until Stalin came into full power. Lenin had some Jewish ancestry and was a firm enemy of anti-Semitism; possibly the anti-Semitism of the Ukrainian ultra-right could have played a role. But most probably the destruction of the Lenin statues is meant by ultra right Ukrainian nationalists as a warning to their more left-leaning opponents not to put their heads above the parapet in the future, lest they meet the same fate as the statues-decapitation! The mayor of Kharkiv promised to restore the statue. http://peoplesworld.org/ukraine-knocking-down-the-lenin-statues/
Post #395,254 by Another Scott 10/3/14 5:01:18 PM Reply	"most probably" Really? :-/
Post #395,625 by rcareaga 10/21/14 2:34:58 PM Reply	Interesting character, Lenin I find that he elicits my respect and my disparagement in equal measure. You, mmoffitt, would probably find little to admire in the same personality type deployed in the service of the Spanish Inquisition. And yet, the desired end, the salvation of immortal souls, certainly trumped any transient suffering undergone by those ephemeral envelopes of flesh, provided the theological premise is accepted. Just so, if a global society of equality, prosperity and happiness from which economic exploitation has been banished is in prospect, a couple of transitional generations may perhaps need to be sacrificed, because their sufferings will be redeemed by the lives of their grandchildren and further progeny down the generations. Lenin the Jesuit, unfortunately, would have tortured and burned in the service of the consensual hallucination called "God." I'm far from certain that Lenin the Bolshevik proceeded from much firmer theoretical ground. In any event, he was a man whose compassion for humanity in the abstract was so profound that it quite trumped, during his brief years in power, any sentimental considerations regarding humanity in particular. I know that among his admirers it's an article of faith that had Ilich remained in good health the USSR would have been spared the rigors of Stalinism and emerged within a few years as a beacon of justice and prosperity toward which the world's proletarians would have swarmed, overthrowing their oppressors. I'm more persuaded by Bertram Wolfe's thesis, in Three Who Made a Revolution, that Lenin's own style of leadership was a major factor in making possible the rise of a character like Stalin (however much this development alarmed Lenin at the end of his life), and that the original Bolshevik cannot be exonerated, much as his remaining champions would like him to be, from the bloody reign of his remarkable protégé. A powerful character. He deserve to be remembered. Not certain he deserves to be celebrated—else his near contemporary, that Austrian guy, whose influence on XX century history was approximately as profound, ought to be depicted on plinths all over Europe. Really, mmoffitt, contrarianism is one thing, but you seem on your side as uncritical of the "evidence" you advance on Putin's behalf as the most rabid neocons frothing for a new Cold War. cordially,

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