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New What do you know...
...besides software? How do you make yourself stand out from all of the other code monkeys? There are jobs out there but you have to know where to look and know how to get your resume to the top of the pile. Try to leverage the non-CS part of your education/work experience into landing a job with a company that doesn't specialize in software as its only product but rather uses software as part of the business in producing a product or running the company.

For example, my company, a biotech in Silicon Valley, has multiple openings in software development/QA for internal projects but even with the ton of resumes we are getting, the pickings are slim. We need programmers and testers that have some biology background - a very rare combination. A couple upper division courses in biology or biochemistry is usually enough to get your foot in the door.
Ray
New It's also who you know
If someone at the company already knows you, it really helps you (lowers the "sales resistance" to hiring you since you're a known quantity, not just a resume).

I suspect that many of the most interesting software development jobs in Silicon Valley never make it onto the public "programmers" job sites. Unfortunately, we're not hiring, so I can't be a connection.

And, yes, domain knowledge is critical. For example, if you're not interested in learning about mechatronics, you wouldn't be a good fit at my company (heck, I enjoy my time with the wrenches, even if it scares some co-workers!). I'd rather hire a ME interested in automation and teach them programming than hire a CS major who is only interested in latest programming fads.

Tony
New Well, now, that's the rub, ain't it?
The main problem is exactly as you describe it - I've been focusing so hard on Comp. Sci. in my studies that I don't have any "official" secondary skills. Yeah, I should have spread out a bit... :P

As far as friends on the inside - my acquaintences have been casting around (Hey Brandioch, got any openings?) but not much luck there. In fact, most of the people I know are so busy holding on to their own jobs they're afraid to even suggest other people for employment...
InThane - Now running Ashton rev 2.0
New Can you stay in school for another year?
Take some classes to round out your skills, do an honors project to make your resume stand out, ride out the recession...

BTW, is your resume online?
Ray
New Unfortunately, no.
Student loans are racking up to the point where I can't really keep on going - and worse yet, the only "alternative" program at the school I could get into would be MBA.

I'd rather be a firefighter.
InThane - Now running Ashton rev 2.0
New Well, I'll keep a look out
but will make no promises. The local economy (Silicon Valley) is looking up a bit (semiconductor is finally turning the corner), although major portions (e.g. fiber optics) are still totally depressed.

Tony
New Only a few angles to offer..
It appears that we share a similar POV re the entire massive topic you sum-up as 'sales' (?)

(Hitler referred derogatorily to the Brits as, a nation of shopkeepers .. Unfortunately for him, he failed to recognize that, "running your own little shop" necessitates the accumulation of lore in a wide range of skills, planning, etc. Of course he missed quite a few other things as well.)

So I differentiate between er sales-droid, a 'person' (but hired as if an interchangeable commodity) to spin / hawk warez of whatever utility or none and, the simple fact that:

Whatever you 'do' - you are selling Something; your skills, reputation about those skills, etc. My impression after now many years at IWE and elsewhere [but never in Your field] is that:

Most IT folk now - certainly at entry-level - and increasingly further up the ladder - are indeed being treated like a majority of Other People out there, by the Suited-Ones - indirectly thus, by the Suited-Ones' selected deputies: as

COMMODITIES.

Period. Proof? What's that acronym again, for hiring cheap Overseas slave-labor (and they *are* slaves = unable to bargain for better conditions, move to another company, etc). No Rights = exactly as for anyone on what's left (and dwindling fast) of 'welfare' - get a Social-sociopath droid handling your case and you have No Rights.

Ah yes, the Econ folk shall cite 'The Market' and 'Supply and Demand' and property rights and other Interesting aspects; still - HR___ is the perfect example that, IT has joined the other trades as commodity fodder, officially. Whether you want to or not - you are involved in WTO, Nafta and the other rubrics via which we are moving at speed towards a Two-Class very Unstable, increasingly Angry culture (we're already there, actually IMhO).

As others have advanced - If one has a very-great capability in a difficult part of the ladder, it hasn't gotten unbearable in Corporate bizness. Yet. You are honest enough to assess where your best talents are, and thus estimate prospects today. (I'd say that that nitty-gritty personal Honest assessment ought not ever to appear here, if ya catch my drift.) No one should go on record beyond a certain degree, in a culture where so much daily lying is a necessity of employment, and where one's entrance to a job - is via something called HR, with all the science as is to be found, in sociology.. behind that selection).

Your degree probably still carries the universal weight: hey, the guy was able to eat a lot of shit, produce on time and - finish. It ought to be as useful beyond IT. Luck seems to determine if.. you stumble onto an unusual request in quite another field, and you and they conclude that you can get up to speed, 'cause ya know how to think. Remember how rare that ability is becoming?

I will light a candle.. that you don't have to choose between a pure sales-droid job and eating. And you're too smart to dump the remaining benefits for an equally unprofitable alternative - till they run out.


Cheers,

Ashton
     How dead is the U.S. software industry? - (inthane-chan) - (90)
         You only need one job. Don't believe the hype. - (Another Scott)
         Pick a minor - (orion)
         It's not dead - (broomberg) - (87)
             It's pining for the Fjords! - (orion) - (68)
                 Good One, Orion!____ [but..___ look at the lovely plumage!] -NT - (Ashton)
                 Wrong analogy - (broomberg) - (66)
                     Okies... - (folkert)
                     Damn Politics! - (orion) - (31)
                         Sigh - (ben_tilly) - (30)
                             No new clog - (orion) - (29)
                                 You always have a choice. Always. Hang in there. -NT - (Another Scott) - (24)
                                     I have limited choices - (orion) - (22)
                                         You have lots of choices. - (Another Scott)
                                         You only have one choice - (boxley) - (2)
                                             Thanks Bill - (orion) - (1)
                                                 *smile* - (imric)
                                         Why do you seem so convinced that your wife is a bitch? - (CRConrad) - (17)
                                             If I lose the house - (orion) - (16)
                                                 But, Y the F wouldn't U live in SAME apt with wife & son ?!? -NT - (CRConrad) - (15)
                                                     Why wouldn't I? - (orion) - (14)
                                                         What you're saying is, she'd let you starve. Nice marriage. -NT - (CRConrad) - (9)
                                                             nope, his pride not her problem -NT - (boxley) - (4)
                                                                 Yeah, but that's what HE is saying here. - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                                                     Warehouse job - (orion) - (2)
                                                                         your last paragraph better be a humor - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                             Re: your last paragraph better be a humor - (orion)
                                                             No, what I am saying - (orion) - (3)
                                                                 could take a while anyway :) be good for you -NT - (boxley)
                                                                 What you're saying is pure fucking bullshit. - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                     What are you saying? - (orion)
                                                         Just for curiousity... - (hnick) - (3)
                                                             Doesn't work in reality - (orion) - (2)
                                                                 Actually, it does - (hnick)
                                                                 Something to do in the meantime... - (Another Scott)
                                     I have limited choices - (orion)
                                 You always have more choices - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                                     What I have been doing - (orion) - (2)
                                         The Public Face versus The Private Face. - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                                             I am doing what I can to survive - (orion)
                     Your description seems accurate. But the 'Plan' is fscked. - (Ashton) - (32)
                         And your alternative is? - (broomberg) - (31)
                             "Unless you disagree with basic property rights" - (Ashton) - (2)
                                 Godwin -NT - (broomberg) - (1)
                                     Re: Godwin: just history (German !=Nazi, one hoped) -NT - (Ashton)
                             Is it my imagination, or is that really... - (CRConrad) - (27)
                                 I dunno about founding fathers - (broomberg)
                                 Barry's assessment of how to work in this biz is correct - (boxley)
                                 It's not just us. - (mmoffitt) - (23)
                                     So much bull, so little time. - (Arkadiy) - (22)
                                         Shto? - (mmoffitt) - (21)
                                             You cannot be free without private property. - (Arkadiy) - (6)
                                                 How about "kak?" -NT - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                     "kak" is "how" while "chto" is "what". -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (4)
                                                         I know. I was kidding. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                             I tried a cut and paste of Russian from pravda.ru ... - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                                                 Hmm.. Cyrillic in Moz? - (Ashton)
                                                             Brezhnev... - (Arkadiy)
                                             This is just sooo rich! - (Arkadiy) - (13)
                                                 Nyet. - (mmoffitt) - (12)
                                                     Agreed. - (Arkadiy) - (11)
                                                         No, I wouldn't. - (mmoffitt) - (10)
                                                             The freedom to read requires the freedom to own the book - (Arkadiy) - (9)
                                                                 Do you "own" library books? - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                                                     cuba does not recognise personal property - (boxley) - (3)
                                                                         Clarification. - (mmoffitt)
                                                                         Bullshit, I think. (Goes for the Soviet Union too, BTW.) - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                             Individual belongings versus private property. - (Arkadiy)
                                                                     No. Library does. - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                                                                         Ah, but who owns the library? The People do ;-) - (mmoffitt)
                                                                         Guess I don't see any real argument here. - (Ashton)
                                                                 And she did finish that book (I saw her) ;-) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                 Property rights - (orion)
             Right on; most software isn't shrink wrapped - (tonytib)
             You misunderstand my situation. - (inthane-chan) - (8)
                 Go be a firefighter - (tseliot)
                 What do you know... - (rsf) - (6)
                     It's also who you know - (tonytib) - (5)
                         Well, now, that's the rub, ain't it? - (inthane-chan) - (4)
                             Can you stay in school for another year? - (rsf) - (1)
                                 Unfortunately, no. - (inthane-chan)
                             Well, I'll keep a look out - (tonytib)
                             Only a few angles to offer.. - (Ashton)
             Looks 'tits up' to me. - (tuberculosis) - (7)
                 I dunno, you tell me - (broomberg) - (6)
                     HOLY ****! - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                         That's what I thought - (broomberg)
                     Not too shabby - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                         Based on your description - (broomberg) - (1)
                             Based on your.... - (folkert)
                     Same here, pretty much. - (admin)

Hey, you sass that hoopy Ford Prefect?
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