I should slap Lucas.

Post #38,934 by Brandioch 5/16/02 5:00:47 PM Reply	I should slap Lucas. Saw Attack of the Clones at 4am today. There is one part in there when I had to resist whistling the Mario Brothers music. Is it possible to make the straight to video game segment of the movie a little LESS obvious? Other than that, lots of death. Body parts being cut off. Explosions. But they STILL don't explain the political situation very well. Note: I was drunk most of the night so I might have missed critical parts. Did I mention lots of explosions? That's Mr. Windu to you. And Yoda has some great scenes.
Post #38,949 by Another Scott 5/16/02 7:14:41 PM Reply	You've been reading Huey's take, haven't you? From "The Boondocks" comic. E.g. [link\|http://www.ucomics.com/boondocks/viewbo.cfm?uc_full_date=20020511&uc_comic=bo&uc_daction=X\|5/11/02]. My wife refuses to see it, and it really doesn't appeal to me either. FWIW. The reviews I've seen, e.g. [link\|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17116-2002May14.html\|But the mythic source [Lucas] seems to have based this episode on is . . . "The McLaughlin Group."] , have all been pretty bad. Cheers, Scott.
Post #38,965 by Brandioch 5/16/02 11:04:32 PM Reply	I like that. :) And I have to agree with that review. I think Lucas was trying for some dark political maneuvering as the back drop, but all he can really get across is ...nothing. There are so many ways this could have been done better. Even if he had to leave the political stuff in. Oh, and why is every Sith Lord so much more talented than the Jedi?
Post #38,969 by orion 5/17/02 12:18:28 AM Reply	I saw it today my brother bought me a ticket to see it, and it was not the best Star Wars episode, but it was entertaining. The Sith Lords use The Dark Side, and have different powers, usually more destructive. Like Deception, which cast a cloud of darkness about the other Jedis trying to use clarevoance, it also clouds their senses making it harder to predict things. Remember that Jedis are keepers of the Peace and not warriors. The Sith, apparently train to be warriors, while the Jedi do not. Hence that is how Sith Lord can kick Jedi butt unless they are named "Yoda" and are mean and green. :) I think Lucus was learning how to write stories and after the first three, he got better and wrote the other three to be better stories. So Episode Four "A New Hope" already had the bugs worked out and a good story with fewer special effects needed (No CGI aliens like Jarjar or a Robot army) Spoiler alert, do not read further unless you want to spoil the movie or already seen it: In the bar, look to the video screen on the left and you will see someone playing a "Pod Racer" video game. Yes, the same one the Playstation or N64 had played, but in an alien bar. I heard there are other stuff hidden in the movie. Jarjar binks I think was played for as a patsy by Senator [link\|http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/palpatine/index.html\|Palpatine] to gain power to use the Republic to create the Empire. He had Jarjar propose the passage of power. Emperor Palpatine in "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Return Of The Jedi" sure looks like that Senator guy. Either they are the same or the Emperor is a clone of him. I think the Senator takes control of the Clone Troopers in Episode 3 and then starts construction on the Death Star. It seems the Trade Federation had the plans for it designed and Dukoo took them to his master. Anakin destroyed the Tusken Raiders (Sand People) who killed his mother, the men, the women, and the children. Such deeds are putting him on the path to the dark side. Of course you all know that he becomes Darth Vader, but the question is when will he become Darth Vader in Episode 3? Will Episode 3 be called "The Fall Of The Republic" or "The Rise Of Darth Vader" or "The Rise Of The Empire"? *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #38,974 by Brandioch 5/17/02 12:51:14 AM Reply	More spoilers. Do not read. It's been 10 years between the first and the second movie. And no one has thought of getting Vader's mommy out of slavery? And don't tell me it is because a Jedi can't have attachments. Someone who would abandon his mommy to a life of slavery on a desert planet is NOT someone I'd place any trust in. Now, speaking of Jedi's and attachments. The "younglings" Yoda was teaching seemed pretty young. What kind of people take children and raise them with "no attachments" like that? Again, not someone I'd trust. So, Vader and Armadillo have to get married in secret. Why? Are there only TWO ways our of the Jedi? Dead or Dark Side? "Thanks for everything, Obi, but I've fallen in love and I'll be resigning now. Here's my saber and my robes. You've been great. I'd like you to be my best man." Sith Lords and clouding the Force. Hmmm, so, when there is trouble sensing, there might be a Sith Lord near by. Assuming there is some distance limitation. But none of the Jedi can grasp that there might be one on the planet. Jedi are DUMB. I didn't notice the video game. I'll have to look if I go again. :) JarJar must die. What POSSIBLE reason could ANYONE have for having him stand in for the Queen/Senator? Yep, Vader is starting to become "evil". And his only "attachments" allowed (Obi and Yoda and so on) don't seem to have a CLUE as to what is happening or why or how to help him through these adolescent, hormonal issues. So they let the most powerful Jedi (apprentice), just muddle through life? Aside from the Jedi Code (can't do this or this or this or this) to help him through the questions (if I love her and it is forbidden, can I do it in secret?). They seem to be betting that he'll, somehow, manage to make the right choices while avoiding the Dark Side which offers him everything that they deny him. "And now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb." Dark Helmet "Spaceballs"
Post #39,049 by altmann 5/17/02 2:54:39 PM Reply	Re: More spoilers. Do not read. On mommy. Maybe he could sense that she was OK, even happy (she married the guy that bought her from Watto). Maybe he figured he'd wait till he was a full-on independent Jedi before coming home to impress mom. On JarJar. That's what happens when you elect a total idiot. He ends up giving the keys to the kingdom away. Besides, JarJar was a war hero, and his people possibly represent half the population of Naboo. On Jedi cluefulness. It was mentioned that with Sith lords, there can be only 2, master and apprentice (apparently to keep them all from killing each other). It was also mentioned, in episodes I and II, that prophecy says that Anakin is the one that will bring balance to the force. I almost immediately interpreted that to be "he will kill all but 2 of the Jedi and turn to the dark side, becoming one of the 2 Sith". Yoda and his toadies seem to be oblivious to this interpretation, or are living in denial. Of course we know that he becomes Darth Vader, but still. -- Chris Altmann
Post #39,071 by imric 5/17/02 4:03:17 PM Reply	Re: More spoilers. Do not read. Boba Fett wa a clone of Django - Boba call Django 'Dad'. Is Luke Anakin's clone, genetically modified to be more tractable to the Jedi way? After the Sith (Sidhe?) unbalance the force (I guess that's what's supposed to have happened to make all the Jedi weaker, as they admitted), including Anakin, maybe, in a way (as Luke), he DOES 'bring balance' to the Force.... evil grin Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #39,082 by hnick 5/17/02 5:32:12 PM Reply	Gaelic 'Sidhe' is pronounced 'She'. Not too close to Sith :)
Post #39,097 by altmann 5/17/02 7:44:40 PM Reply	Balance There are hundreds (thousands) of Jedi. The Republic is at peace under thier guardianship. There are only two Sith. They have to work in the shadows, behind the scenes. I read the whole balance in the force thing as "be careful what you wish for, you may get it". If Anakin and the Palpatine kill all but two jedi (Obi Wan and Yoda), and takes his place at Palpatine's side as he will, there will be balance. 2 Jedi and 2 Sith. Of course, those 2 sith would now have the might of the empire to wield, but the force users (Jedi and Sith) would be in balance. Later, Luke fixes the problem and restores imbalance (good over evil) in the force. I don't remember them saying that the Sith brought imbalance, just that someone would bring balance. They seem to think this would be an improvement over the current situation. If they did say the Sith brought imbalance then that shoots a hole in my theory :) Also, I don't think Luke (and Leia) are clones. It is unclear when Vader finds out Luke is his son (or if he knew all along). Maybe after the end of Star Wars he did some investigation and found out he grew up with his half brother on Tatooine and put it all together. And cloning wouldn't explain Leia (or would it). -- Chris Altmann
Post #39,109 by orion 5/17/02 10:20:23 PM Reply	Luke and Liea I think after Anakin turned to Vader, that Old Obi or Yoda hid the twins in two different locations so that Vader wouldn't raise them up to use the dark side of the force. "If you strike me down now, I will become more powerful than you possibly could imagine!" What did Obi mean by that? By striking him down, Luke would be forced to finish training and come back to battle Vader? Isn't that like hate, and the wrong side of the force? FBog! *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #39,110 by orion 5/17/02 10:22:25 PM Reply	Imbalance I think that the energy around all living things, etc was disturbed by the Dark Side and that Anakin was "the one" to restore balance so that others would not disturb or imbalance the force. The Sith clouded the visions that the Jedi used to rely on, thus imbalancing out the force. Anakin was not "the one", but Luke was, his son. *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #39,072 by Ashton 5/17/02 4:06:30 PM Reply	All of which might serve to show that, A) Lucas ain't his alleged mentor - Joseph Campbell (who didn't live to see the release of the first of the SW stuff IIRC). It certainly shows that George never came near to grokking to fullness, what it was that Campbell was 'about'. But, George had $ and could dumb Anything down enough to "work with it". Settle for 'titillate' - much EZier. (Make some cute Elves, say. Give them Big soulful eyes' like on them classy velvet paintings by Kean) B) In a culture which has left no Useful myths, only tattered remnants of ones from even more bestial [?arguable, that] and savage times - the Hollywood CB DeMilles du jour can always manage to create shallowness, unthought-out inconsistent veneers over the same-old sameold Shoot 'Em Up oaters. Add new digital technology, stir, advertise; sell overpriced tickets to legions of compulsive talkers who think they're at home in front of the 800" Tee Vee, drinkin Bud Light. (Umm make the Big bucks from the DVDs natch) C) Anything 'new' in sight? Don't see anything. Ashton
Post #38,970 by Brandioch 5/17/02 12:28:10 AM Reply	Is this why they suck so much? I was discussing this with a friend who went to see the movie with me. Given that the audience needs some context to relate to the movie..... The two new movies have had the Trade Federation (or whatever) attempting to use armies (droids) to extend their control. The problem with that is that it doesn't have an analog in the real world. The WTO doesn't maintain a standing army. Pepsico has no onsite munitions stockpile. The first three movies (produced) were better in that the rebels were fighting against "The Empire" which had enough visual simularity with other "Empires" (Storm Troopers, battle fleets, a clearly defined leader with ranking subordinates) to allow the audience to relate their world view to the movie. The cross over from a nation using restraint of trade to achieve political aims -to- A trade federation using military force to achieve marketing aims -just doesn't work in those movies. Particularly when the trade federation is only a tool used by another to achieve different aims.
Post #38,972 by orion 5/17/02 12:33:28 AM Reply	Nitpickers [link\|http://www.nitpickers.com/movies/titles/110265.html\|Nitpick Episode 2] Or visit their main page at [link\|http://www.nitpickers.com\|[link\|http://www.nitpickers.com\|http://www.nitpickers.com]] *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #39,218 by orion 5/19/02 1:23:20 PM Reply	Mr. Cranky reviews Attack Of The Clones [link\|http://www.mrcranky.com/movies/attackoftheclones.html\|[link\|http://www.mrcranky.com/movies/attackoftheclones.html\|http://www.mrcranky...eclones.html]] *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #39,224 by Ashton 5/19/02 5:51:56 PM Reply	Good One, Orion! (I was Crankier - first!) Feedback titles: Could the music be any more annoying in that movie? _____It Could be more annoying Etc. [link\|http://www.mrcranky.com/movies/attackoftheclones/26.html\|Is George Lucas the Ed Wood of our day?] Yeah.. hadn't planned to see it, anyway - but now, maybe in a few years it can become Camp; replace Plan 9 From Outer Space or maybe the, Security-Cam Record of the Republican UnNatural Convention and, Life in the Cheney Bunker - unedited Poor Joseph Campbell.. spinning in grave over having imagined that George might spin us a [??] Mythos for the Corporate Dark Age of Mindless Plunder and 4 Ton UAVs Instead we gots, M$-Bob Teaches Ethics from a Skateboard (with Tee-shirt$) Oh well.. the next Harry Potter BOOK is due for midsummer - and the graphics are guaranteed Perfect: they are inside your Mind. Ashton Cranky-first
Post #39,322 by orion 5/20/02 5:49:35 PM Reply	Howard The Duck Remember that Lucus also made that "Howard The Duck" movie. So even Lucus can lay an egg now and then. *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #39,332 by Ashton 5/20/02 6:52:01 PM Reply	Watch it... I Liked that movie! Film noir meets kinky duck sex. It may have been the poor reception of that... pearl before swine.. which led him back to the not Too-different, not Too-imaginitive :: not Too-good Popular, saleable fodder. [??] Ashton
Post #39,481 by CRConrad 5/22/02 7:51:48 AM Reply	From the paper, the other day: HP5 delayed, not before 2003.
Post #39,542 by Ashton 5/22/02 5:44:02 PM Reply	{Ugh} ... bad news :( but OK - prefer quality over speed.
Post #39,567 by Silverlock 5/22/02 10:21:42 PM Reply	Decided not to see it As pissed off as I was after seeing the last one, and as much critical critiques as I've seen, It doesn't seen worth the money it costs to see it. I think I'll wait till it comes out at the discount show. "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does NOT mean to stand by the President or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country." ~ Theodore Roosevelt
Post #40,387 by inthane-chan 5/29/02 5:07:40 PM Reply	That's Mr. Yoda to you... Saw it monday night. Brandi's got about 80% of it. They don't come out and lay out the political situation for you, but it makes a fair amount of sense if you think about it (and you DO have to think about it - he doesn't just drop it on the floor in front of you and say "Here it is!" Um, actually, one person does, but nobody important believes him. Which was his intent, IMO.) Good fight sequences, although I found the suspension of belief starting to wear a bit thin in a certain fight sequence right before the clone army shows up. I can understand the Jedi holding their own, but... One person should have been a grease spot on the sand, IMO. Lucas can't write dialog to save his life. Best review I've read so far: If A New Hope is The Hero With a Thousand Faces then Attack of the clones is The McLaughlin Group - lots of politics that makes not much sense. Yoda does indeed open up an industrial-sized can of whoop-ass - in exactly the manner I'd expect of him, too. That old crotchety Jedi attitude was just that - attitude. Figured as much. InThane - Now running Ashton rev 2.0
Post #42,241 by drewk 6/13/02 2:40:24 PM Reply	Finally went to see it And not because I thought it would be good. I just happen to live 10 minutes from one of the 19(?) theaters showing it in DLP. I wanted to check out the new technology. So my review of the projection quality: Not really a noticable difference, and I was looking for it. There were a couple of scenes where the colors were a bit brighter and more intense than I can remember seeing in movies before, but that could just be because no one else had ever made someone with skin that particular shade of green before. So I'm not buying the raves about how incredible it looks. But it does guarantee that the quality won't degrade, which is a huge benefit anyway. And the potentially cheaper distribution. (But who's going to pocket the savings, I wonder ... ) As for the movie ... My wife and I both thought the same thing when we left: That was only 2-1/4 hours? Geez it felt like three hours at least. Any one -- or maybe two -- of the scenes between Annakin and Amidala would have established their relationship. The rest were an exercise in poor dialogue. Oh, and Amidala must have taken packing lessons from the crew of the S.S. Minnow. I don't think she was in the same outfit for more than 30 seconds. (What was with that leather dominatrix lounge-wear, anyway?) Cut out 45 minutes of the love story and it would have been a perfectly respectable Summer Blockbuster(tm). === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #42,245 by orion 6/13/02 2:46:22 PM Reply	Of course you know that which each outfit Amidala wears, they will make an "action-figure" wearing it? So it is in their best interest to change her outfit in each scene. I imagine her bodygaurds carried the luggage? *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #42,296 by ben_tilly 6/13/02 8:50:26 PM Reply	I seem to be the only person who was bothered by their math? You have a few thousand systems joining the trade federation. And the "grand army" meant to take them on is a million and a half clones? Isn't that short of being noticable by a few orders of magnitude? Cheers, Ben "... I couldn't see how anyone could be educated by this self-propagating system in which people pass exams, teach others to pass exams, but nobody knows anything." --Richard Feynman
Post #42,336 by drewk 6/14/02 9:48:52 AM Reply	Maybe One guy with a gun can hold a bank full of people hostage. Even if there are several dozen men with guns outside. They guy trying not to fight always has to have massive fire superiority over the guy who does want to fight. The Trade Federation deosn't really want the fight. The droid armies are supposed to deter the Republic from opposing them. The Republic is using the clone army as a tool of naked political agression. They will forcibly deny the right of secession one planet at a time. As long as the Trade Federation members are just in it for the money, they lose this battle of wills. War is bad for business. Unless you're just selling weapons to both sides. Like the cloners. === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #42,398 by JayMehaffey 6/14/02 7:18:16 PM Reply	Bothered by different math The trade federation army wasn't the big for two reasons. The Republic didn't have a standing army at all, and the merchants would have built the smallest army that suited their needs. Second, the trade federation group was setup to fail, the whole point of the sucession was to give Darth Sidius a reason to raise an army for the Republic. The math the bothered me was the time line. The clones growth was roughly doubled, which means they where growing for 10 years roughly. But if Dooku / Tyrannis was already evil 10 years ago when he setup the clone army then it would have been around the time of the first movie and violated the "there can only be two dark jedi" rule. Jay
Post #42,424 by ben_tilly 6/15/02 11:36:54 AM Reply	The time line is OK It just means that the dark lord is damned fast about replacing his second. Which makes sense because in the next movie he is supposed to do it again - successfully. (And note that he is already training the possible replacement.) As for size of militaries, my judgement is based on comparing one system to Earth. We have multiple countries with militaries in the ballpark of a million or more. Many more don't, but could raise such in the event of a protracted war. Even if we assume that this universe is less populated, at 10,000 soldiers or equivalent (eg drones) per planet (which is on par with a medium-sized force of peacekeepers that the UN manages to organize fairly routinely), we would still be talking an army of hundreds of millions. Putting it into some perspective, more past and present military people will see Lucas' film than will be in this galaxy-shaking Grand Army! Cheers, Ben "... I couldn't see how anyone could be educated by this self-propagating system in which people pass exams, teach others to pass exams, but nobody knows anything." --Richard Feynman
Post #42,405 by orion 6/14/02 10:34:20 PM 6/14/02 10:35:03 PM Reply	Lucas math The Clones are well trained and based on Jengo Fett, so they have his physical attributes. The thousand systems may have wimpy militaries, but rely on the droid fighters to fight for them. If each clone can take out 10 droid fighters before getting Aced, then the number is much higher. Don't those Clone Troopers look a lot like Storm Troopers? Hmmmmmmm, I wonder... *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.* Edited by orion June 14, 2002, 10:35:03 PM EDT Expand All History

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