Having a business isn't a right.

Post #386,842 by Another Scott 2/25/14 10:53:54 AM Reply	Having a business isn't a right. That's where you're going off the rails. If you have a business, you have to treat members of protected classes equally. Full stop. If you don't like it, then don't have a business. If you don't think gays should be a protected class, that's a permissible (though mistaken IMO) opinion to have. But that's not the question in these cases. The question is - Should a business be able to discriminate against a protected class for claimed religious reasons? The answer, clearly, is no. If you don't like gays being a protected class, then work to get the public accommodations laws changed. Don't claim that your poor fee-fees trump the law. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #386,845 by mmoffitt 2/25/14 11:40:04 AM Reply	But Free Speech is. So is the free exercise of religion. Both are falling short (in the law) of consumer interests. While I find no pleasure in "being on the side of the churches", I do think that all Americans should have the right to say, "No. I do not want to participate in that." Surely that right should supercede anyone else's right to force a baker to make a cake for any event they deem proper. Let me ask you a hypothetical. I open a tatoo parlor. And, just to add emphasis to the hypothetical, suppose I lost my parents in the holocaust. Should I be forced to tatoo a swastika on a Hindu who comes into my shop? That symbol (to a Hindu) plainly does not mean the same thing it does to me. But you seem to be arguing that what I think about what I am supplying in my business does not matter. So, I'd guess you'd say that I do have to provide that tatoo because, after all, I'm doing business with the public. If that is your position, doesn't that give you pause?
Post #386,847 by Another Scott 2/25/14 11:57:36 AM Reply	Lots of "speech" is restricted for businesses. Again, protected class and public accommodation laws covers a lot. There are lots and lots of offensive tatoos - e.g. http://www.imef.mari...F/EOA/Tattoos.ppt I don't know the details about the laws for getting them. Minors are obviously a different category. It seems to me that if someone is in the tatoo business, they know what their clientele is likely to be. There's a whole subculture about what "artists" will and won't do - e.g. http://www.reddit.co.../comments/1ckq2w/ Tatoos are kinda permanent. No, it doesn't give me pause that businesses have to follow public accommodations rules for protected classes. HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #386,848 by boxley 2/25/14 12:01:13 PM Reply	why would you have a problem with that? since the hindu wanting a what you think is a swastika is no such thing. It points the other way Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #386,858 by mmoffitt 2/25/14 1:02:35 PM Reply	Is it the Buddhists that had it the same way? I forget.
Post #386,863 by boxley 2/25/14 1:22:04 PM Reply	no, it was the nazi's that flipped it Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #386,867 by mmoffitt 2/25/14 1:30:24 PM Reply	Ah. Thanks!
Post #386,854 by folkert 2/25/14 12:40:37 PM Reply	"No. I do not want to participate in that." FULL STOP "No. I do not want to participate in that." FULL STOP. Adding in "Because you are Muslim." or Adding in "Due to your being a gay-bay-homo." or Adding in "You are a 1912 Southern Baptist Reformer." or Adding in "You are a Hindu." or Adding in "because I don't serve Spics." or Adding in "you're a porch monkey." or Adding in "eww, you are Yellow Skinner." or Adding in "you are a Skin Head." Makes you a racist hater that has broken the law in equal access terms. If you didn't add those later phrases (or similar ones to it)... you could be a racists hater all you want. Yeah, Mike... you aren't doing well here. Once you realize, Business that is public... is public and constrained by those same things. I'm reminded of a scene from a "A few good men..." In the court-martial proceeding with Judge Randolph: Kaffee: Colonel Jessep, did you order the Code Red? Judge Randolph: You don't have to answer that question! Col. Jessep: I'll answer the question! [to Kaffee] Col. Jessep: You want answers? Kaffee: I think I'm entitled to. Col. Jessep: You want answers? Kaffee: I want the truth! Col. Jessep: You can't handle the truth! [pauses] Col. Jessep: Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to. Kaffee: Did you order the Code Red? Col. Jessep: I did the job I... Kaffee: Did you order the Code Red? Col. Jessep: You're Goddamn right I did! Do see what he did there? Even though it was for the apparent "Good of the Unit" it wasn't proper and in fact illegal. You aren't looking at this from a reasonable person's perspective. You are using the excuses. -- greg@gregfolkert.net "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." --Stanislaw Jerzy Lec

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