That's not the case here. Here's a better analogy.

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Post #386,769 by mmoffitt 2/24/14 1:41:38 PM Reply	That's not the case here. Here's a better analogy. A couple trudging along in the middle of the night finds the only open diner in a desert town. They are eloping and want to have a wedding and want the diner's kitchen to act as caterer for their nuptials. They have money. Is it okay for the diner to decline?
Post #386,793 by crazy 2/24/14 5:21:39 PM Reply	and your answer is?
Post #386,828 by mmoffitt 2/25/14 8:38:58 AM Reply	I'm not a fan of Compulsory Participation in Rituals. ;0)
Post #386,831 by folkert 2/25/14 9:01:50 AM Reply	It is not a ritual. You are very close to the same kinds of issues faced in the 50s by blacks. Come on... open up your mind a bit please. -- greg@gregfolkert.net "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." --Stanislaw Jerzy Lec
Post #386,896 by crazy 2/25/14 6:56:23 PM Reply	Who invited participation? You are a vendor with a price list. Provide the damn cake / flowers / napkins, etc, and get the f out.

No one here I know of agrees with me on this. - (mmoffitt) - (176) - Feb. 23, 2014, 11:45:30 AM EST

Public accommodations laws. - (Another Scott) - (23) - Feb. 23, 2014, 12:14:20 PM EST

Are we really that weak? - (mmoffitt) - (22) - Feb. 23, 2014, 02:22:57 PM EST

won't sell to blacks natives and rceaga - (boxley) - (14) - Feb. 23, 2014, 08:39:51 PM EST

And don't forget suspected commies! -NT - (Andrew Grygus) - (1) - Feb. 23, 2014, 09:44:03 PM EST

Actually, I'd be okay with that. - (mmoffitt) - Feb. 24, 2014, 08:24:58 AM EST

Nope. Thanks for herring. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (11) - Feb. 24, 2014, 08:38:52 AM EST

either you are a public establishment or a key club - (boxley) - (10) - Feb. 24, 2014, 11:12:16 AM EST

Dupe - ignore. -NT - (mmoffitt) - Feb. 24, 2014, 12:44:24 PM EST

I don't think flowers and cakes for weddings rise that high. - (mmoffitt) - (8) - Feb. 24, 2014, 12:44:06 PM EST

So it's a different in magnitude, not kind? -NT - (malraux) - (7) - Feb. 24, 2014, 12:49:49 PM EST

I don't think so. - (mmoffitt) - (6) - Feb. 24, 2014, 01:01:12 PM EST

If they stick to the... - (folkert) - (4) - Feb. 24, 2014, 05:02:54 PM EST

You mean ... - (drook) - (1) - Feb. 24, 2014, 06:20:13 PM EST

Yes... - (folkert) - Feb. 24, 2014, 06:47:20 PM EST

The baker may have. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - Feb. 25, 2014, 08:17:02 AM EST

These people are ignorant fools. - (folkert) - Feb. 25, 2014, 09:00:26 AM EST

Hmm, nope. - (malraux) - Feb. 24, 2014, 08:59:13 PM EST

What's wrong with treating people equally? - (Another Scott) - (6) - Feb. 23, 2014, 11:03:49 PM EST

I guess the difference for me was the purpose. - (mmoffitt) - (5) - Feb. 24, 2014, 08:38:24 AM EST

yeah, like shoving that handicapped thing in your face - (boxley) - (3) - Feb. 24, 2014, 11:16:41 AM EST

How many handicapped persons got married at the Grammy's? - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Feb. 24, 2014, 12:45:32 PM EST

how many handicapped at the grammies? :-) -NT - (boxley) - (1) - Feb. 24, 2014, 02:04:35 PM EST

There are some mentally challenged! :) -NT - (a6l6e6x) - Feb. 24, 2014, 04:17:55 PM EST

Homosexuality *is* normal, you doofus. - (pwhysall) - Feb. 24, 2014, 03:21:40 PM EST

Replace the word "gay" with "black" and see how it flies - (pwhysall) - (5) - Feb. 23, 2014, 12:18:08 PM EST

Nice try. Assumes facts not in evidence. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (4) - Feb. 23, 2014, 02:16:42 PM EST

Incorrect. - (pwhysall) - (3) - Feb. 24, 2014, 02:55:28 AM EST

In public institutions, no. - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Feb. 24, 2014, 08:42:46 AM EST

They're not private if they're public. - (pwhysall) - (1) - Feb. 24, 2014, 03:50:24 PM EST

What about if the door sign is posted... - (folkert) - Feb. 24, 2014, 06:54:17 PM EST

Of course, the Arizona business community has . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - Feb. 23, 2014, 12:23:10 PM EST

Here's the probolem (goining meta) - (drook) - (8) - Feb. 24, 2014, 12:55:18 PM EST

Unpossible!!11 -NT - (Another Scott) - Feb. 24, 2014, 12:58:57 PM EST

Heh. - (mmoffitt) - (6) - Feb. 24, 2014, 01:06:01 PM EST

Is it ok for a waiter in a restaurant to refuse a request? - (crazy) - (5) - Feb. 24, 2014, 01:18:52 PM EST

That's not the case here. Here's a better analogy. - (mmoffitt) - (4) - Feb. 24, 2014, 01:41:38 PM EST

and your answer is? -NT - (crazy) - (3) - Feb. 24, 2014, 05:21:39 PM EST

I'm not a fan of Compulsory Participation in Rituals. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Feb. 25, 2014, 08:38:58 AM EST

It is not a ritual. - (folkert) - Feb. 25, 2014, 09:01:50 AM EST

Who invited participation? - (crazy) - Feb. 25, 2014, 06:56:23 PM EST

Judge's ruling. - (Another Scott) - (21) - Feb. 24, 2014, 01:18:03 PM EST

Their argument was weak. But so was the judge's. - (mmoffitt) - (20) - Feb. 24, 2014, 01:37:47 PM EST

No. It compels them to treat them like any other customer. - (Another Scott) - (19) - Feb. 24, 2014, 01:55:13 PM EST

That's a little disingenous. - (mmoffitt) - (18) - Feb. 25, 2014, 09:57:17 AM EST

Please enumerate all the services that represent endorsement - (drook) - (9) - Feb. 25, 2014, 10:20:45 AM EST

There's a reason why I didn't take the bait. - (mmoffitt) - (8) - Feb. 25, 2014, 10:26:46 AM EST

Why? - (drook) - (7) - Feb. 25, 2014, 10:44:58 AM EST

10%? Update your stats. - (mmoffitt) - (6) - Feb. 25, 2014, 11:24:12 AM EST

Another half-step back - (drook) - (1) - Feb. 25, 2014, 12:09:40 PM EST

Bzzzzt. Wrong. - (mmoffitt) - Feb. 25, 2014, 01:54:05 PM EST

Try again. - (malraux) - (3) - Feb. 25, 2014, 12:22:40 PM EST

Good catch. Well said. -NT - (Another Scott) - Feb. 25, 2014, 12:40:33 PM EST

They did, however, - (mmoffitt) - (1) - Feb. 25, 2014, 01:01:53 PM EST

Already covered that. - (malraux) - Feb. 25, 2014, 03:55:20 PM EST

Having a business isn't a right. - (Another Scott) - (7) - Feb. 25, 2014, 10:53:54 AM EST

But Free Speech is. - (mmoffitt) - (6) - Feb. 25, 2014, 11:40:04 AM EST

Lots of "speech" is restricted for businesses. - (Another Scott) - Feb. 25, 2014, 11:57:36 AM EST

why would you have a problem with that? - (boxley) - (3) - Feb. 25, 2014, 12:01:13 PM EST

Is it the Buddhists that had it the same way? I forget. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Feb. 25, 2014, 01:02:35 PM EST

no, it was the nazi's that flipped it -NT - (boxley) - (1) - Feb. 25, 2014, 01:22:04 PM EST

Ah. Thanks! -NT - (mmoffitt) - Feb. 25, 2014, 01:30:24 PM EST

"No. I do not want to participate in that." FULL STOP - (folkert) - Feb. 25, 2014, 12:40:37 PM EST

Gotta give him credit - (rcareaga) - (20) - Feb. 24, 2014, 02:04:42 PM EST

Re: Gotta give him credit - (pwhysall) - (19) - Feb. 24, 2014, 06:06:23 PM EST

You must be new here? -NT - (scoenye) - (2) - Feb. 24, 2014, 06:09:04 PM EST

rofl! -NT - (Another Scott) - Feb. 24, 2014, 06:17:01 PM EST

as AS puts it... - (folkert) - Feb. 24, 2014, 06:56:48 PM EST

Actually, he does have a rational viewpoint - (crazy) - (15) - Feb. 24, 2014, 06:40:28 PM EST

So... that is what they call it... - (folkert) - (9) - Feb. 24, 2014, 06:58:20 PM EST

Unnatural? - (crazy) - (8) - Feb. 24, 2014, 07:01:32 PM EST

No... - (folkert) - (7) - Feb. 24, 2014, 08:53:23 PM EST

To close to reality, but not - (crazy) - (6) - Feb. 24, 2014, 09:25:34 PM EST

Well... - (folkert) - (5) - Feb. 25, 2014, 08:56:09 AM EST

ok, I can accept that - (crazy) - (4) - Feb. 25, 2014, 07:17:34 PM EST

So you're light in the loafers -NT - (drook) - (3) - Feb. 25, 2014, 07:28:25 PM EST

I wish - (crazy) - (1) - Feb. 25, 2014, 09:04:34 PM EST

Re: I wish - (pwhysall) - Feb. 26, 2014, 07:45:19 AM EST

Re: So you're light in the loafers - (rcareaga) - Feb. 25, 2014, 09:24:45 PM EST

The Slate piece is larger in Scale than this smaller topic. - (Ashton) - (4) - Feb. 26, 2014, 06:04:26 AM EST

If I have such a bias, I am unaware of it. - (mmoffitt) - (3) - Feb. 26, 2014, 09:58:32 AM EST

Re: "a business oriented problem" - (a6l6e6x) - (2) - Feb. 26, 2014, 10:07:23 AM EST

Indeed. :0) - (mmoffitt) - (1) - Feb. 26, 2014, 10:09:42 AM EST

Who (first) said..? "The people is an ass." - (Ashton) - Feb. 26, 2014, 05:04:00 PM EST

And this is why people FIGHT with you on the issue - (crazy) - (1) - Feb. 24, 2014, 07:41:45 PM EST

Yup. Also... - (Another Scott) - Feb. 24, 2014, 08:07:32 PM EST

I'm going to try a different tack - (pwhysall) - (16) - Feb. 24, 2014, 08:25:16 PM EST

I don't think it contributes, but I don't think it detracts. - (mmoffitt) - (15) - Feb. 24, 2014, 08:48:41 PM EST

again, let's do that 100% valid thought experiment - (pwhysall) - (14) - Feb. 24, 2014, 08:59:49 PM EST

Don't get hung up on "normal". - (mmoffitt) - (13) - Feb. 25, 2014, 08:27:54 AM EST

nonsense - (pwhysall) - (12) - Feb. 25, 2014, 12:51:29 PM EST

Normal is the wrong word. - (mmoffitt) - (11) - Feb. 25, 2014, 01:16:30 PM EST

Blue eyes are "atypical". Being over 2 meters tall is also. - (Another Scott) - (5) - Feb. 25, 2014, 01:18:15 PM EST

Sigh. The erosion of rights troubles me. - (mmoffitt) - (4) - Feb. 25, 2014, 01:30:00 PM EST

Businesses . are . different. - (Another Scott) - (3) - Feb. 25, 2014, 02:14:22 PM EST

Weddings.Are.Not.People. - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Feb. 25, 2014, 02:57:38 PM EST

(One more thing) Read the judge's decision again. - (Another Scott) - (1) - Feb. 25, 2014, 03:00:10 PM EST

42. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - Feb. 25, 2014, 03:52:21 PM EST

then maybe find a profession that does not serve the public? - (boxley) - (4) - Feb. 25, 2014, 01:30:49 PM EST

No, that is NOT okay. - (mmoffitt) - (3) - Feb. 25, 2014, 01:55:47 PM EST

what if 2 gay men went in? I would assume the same reaction - (boxley) - (2) - Feb. 25, 2014, 02:34:20 PM EST

It isn't. I never said it was. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - Feb. 25, 2014, 02:52:16 PM EST

Oh... - (folkert) - Feb. 25, 2014, 03:08:46 PM EST

Plan C - (pwhysall) - (1) - Feb. 24, 2014, 09:10:54 PM EST

Unpossible!!11 - (Another Scott) - Feb. 24, 2014, 09:22:36 PM EST

Sullivan(!) puts mmoffitt's case a bit more cogently - (rcareaga) - (7) - Feb. 24, 2014, 09:14:00 PM EST

Re: Sullivan(!) puts mmoffitt's case a bit more cogently - (pwhysall) - (2) - Feb. 24, 2014, 09:18:10 PM EST

I'm sorry Monsiur, we are booked -NT - (boxley) - Feb. 24, 2014, 09:46:09 PM EST

I'm actually susceptible to the argument that - (rcareaga) - Feb. 24, 2014, 10:26:52 PM EST

Thanks. - (mmoffitt) - (3) - Feb. 25, 2014, 08:40:38 AM EST

Here's another gobbet of raw meat - (rcareaga) - (2) - Feb. 25, 2014, 12:26:28 PM EST

Er, what? - (mmoffitt) - Feb. 25, 2014, 01:15:49 PM EST

lrpd that last sentence -NT - (boxley) - Feb. 25, 2014, 01:32:14 PM EST

how about a slightly different twist - (boxley) - (1) - Feb. 24, 2014, 09:59:07 PM EST

see 386792 - (folkert) - Feb. 25, 2014, 09:08:51 AM EST

Even Republicans backing out. - (Andrew Grygus) - (2) - Feb. 25, 2014, 06:43:27 PM EST

I think that's due more to the threat of a loss of business. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (1) - Feb. 25, 2014, 08:11:15 PM EST

Good. Let them lose the superbowl. -NT - (crazy) - Feb. 25, 2014, 09:08:19 PM EST

I've reviewed this whole damn thread again - (rcareaga) - (5) - Feb. 25, 2014, 09:16:20 PM EST

Deep in the closet - (crazy) - (4) - Feb. 25, 2014, 10:28:19 PM EST

too easy - (rcareaga) - (3) - Feb. 25, 2014, 10:27:30 PM EST

awww, dammit - (crazy) - (1) - Feb. 25, 2014, 10:39:59 PM EST

Hey! I'm 'old' too, mofo - (Ashton) - Feb. 26, 2014, 07:09:12 AM EST

It's not a phobia. - (mmoffitt) - Feb. 26, 2014, 08:32:55 AM EST

mmoffitt! Georgia agrees with you! - (rcareaga) - (47) - Feb. 26, 2014, 01:57:50 AM EST

Jeez, they're missing a whole new Enemy to persecute-- - (Ashton) - (1) - Feb. 26, 2014, 06:37:06 AM EST

that taint news -NT - (boxley) - Feb. 26, 2014, 10:49:18 AM EST

No, they don't. I thought I'd made this clear. - (mmoffitt) - (42) - Feb. 26, 2014, 08:31:32 AM EST

"I am opposed to wholesale discrimination." - (crazy) - (41) - Feb. 26, 2014, 09:18:04 AM EST

I am not surprised. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (40) - Feb. 26, 2014, 09:20:29 AM EST

Well, that's what it is. -NT - (pwhysall) - (39) - Feb. 26, 2014, 09:24:21 AM EST

I may not agree with you. - (mmoffitt) - (38) - Feb. 26, 2014, 09:59:52 AM EST

You don't have to agree - - (pwhysall) - (37) - Feb. 26, 2014, 10:34:43 AM EST

The general form of that ... - (drook) - Feb. 26, 2014, 10:53:41 AM EST

Again with the misstatement of my position. - (mmoffitt) - (33) - Feb. 26, 2014, 11:01:07 AM EST

That may be your position - (malraux) - (4) - Feb. 26, 2014, 11:03:20 AM EST

Then he has an indefensible position. And THANK YOU! - (mmoffitt) - (3) - Feb. 26, 2014, 11:08:31 AM EST

El dupo. -NT - (malraux) - (1) - Feb. 26, 2014, 12:12:36 PM EST

That's your problem in this thread - (malraux) - (1) - Feb. 26, 2014, 12:12:12 PM EST

-999,999 for me for clarity then. -NT - (mmoffitt) - Feb. 26, 2014, 12:58:20 PM EST

Conflation of SSM with Klan and Neo-Nazi rallies? - (pwhysall) - (26) - Feb. 26, 2014, 11:24:15 AM EST

Reductio ad absurdum. - (mmoffitt) - (25) - Feb. 26, 2014, 11:26:03 AM EST

Whatever. - (pwhysall) - (24) - Feb. 26, 2014, 11:30:31 AM EST

Nitpick much? Substitute a Crips or Bloods rally then. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (23) - Feb. 26, 2014, 11:46:34 AM EST

Re: Nitpick much? Substitute a Crips or Bloods rally then. - (pwhysall) - (22) - Feb. 26, 2014, 11:56:16 AM EST

Okay, so I assumed something not proven, but likely. - (mmoffitt) - (21) - Feb. 26, 2014, 01:33:09 PM EST

The second reply to you in this thread pointed that out - (drook) - (20) - Feb. 26, 2014, 01:56:46 PM EST

It's not the same thing. - (mmoffitt) - (19) - March 1, 2014, 02:11:30 PM EST

Stanford study from 1995. - (Another Scott) - (15) - March 1, 2014, 02:19:24 PM EST

Read the follow-up studies over the past 20 years. - (mmoffitt) - (14) - March 1, 2014, 04:00:40 PM EST

Point me to a cite, please. - (Another Scott) - (13) - March 1, 2014, 04:03:06 PM EST

That's not how that works. - (mmoffitt) - (12) - March 3, 2014, 11:25:05 AM EST

Eh? - (Another Scott) - (1) - March 3, 2014, 11:37:12 AM EST

thats the prove there is no gawd argument :-) -NT - (boxley) - March 3, 2014, 12:04:47 PM EST

So... when did you CHOOSE to be heterosexual? - (folkert) - (9) - March 3, 2014, 09:44:44 PM EST

This is my last on this, and only because I like you & Scott - (mmoffitt) - (8) - March 4, 2014, 09:28:10 AM EST

What's the hypothesis, here? - (pwhysall) - (7) - March 4, 2014, 09:54:42 AM EST

Re: what would attract you to this line of investigation? - (mmoffitt) - (3) - March 4, 2014, 10:13:16 AM EST

exactly, - (boxley) - (1) - March 4, 2014, 10:21:05 AM EST

Um. - (mmoffitt) - March 4, 2014, 11:45:25 AM EST

So you want to check whether it still is a mental illness? -NT - (pwhysall) - March 4, 2014, 10:24:30 AM EST

If we must keep this up, new thread please? -NT - (drook) - March 4, 2014, 10:29:52 AM EST

Because if it an illness, it might be fixable or prevented - (crazy) - (1) - March 4, 2014, 12:55:52 PM EST

New. Thread. Please. -NT - (drook) - March 4, 2014, 01:03:24 PM EST

So, when did you choose to be Hetero-Sexual? -NT - (folkert) - March 1, 2014, 02:48:49 PM EST

Either way, it doesn't matter. - (malraux) - (1) - March 1, 2014, 03:12:46 PM EST

Concur. -NT - (mmoffitt) - March 1, 2014, 03:25:06 PM EST

I think I get your position - (boxley) - Feb. 26, 2014, 11:52:54 AM EST

Well, we could be the Flat Earth Society! :) -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (1) - Feb. 26, 2014, 11:21:34 AM EST

Flat? FLAT? Everyone knows it's hyperbolic saddle-shaped! -NT - (pwhysall) - Feb. 26, 2014, 11:23:33 AM EST

well, there goes the gay black men convention in Atlanta -NT - (boxley) - (1) - Feb. 26, 2014, 10:51:28 AM EST

Then ... let them eat cake! - (Ashton) - Feb. 26, 2014, 04:55:08 PM EST

Arizona Governor Vetoes Bill on Refusal of Service to Gays - (Ashton) - Feb. 26, 2014, 11:24:37 PM EST

Story behind the AZ (and other states) bill - (Another Scott) - (2) - Feb. 27, 2014, 08:16:07 AM EST

So every judge is now a member of the clergy ... OK -NT - (drook) - Feb. 27, 2014, 09:18:49 AM EST

Thanks ~~what I'd imagined: textbook religio-anarchy. Again. -NT - (Ashton) - Feb. 27, 2014, 05:13:35 PM EST

You got a buddy - (crazy) - Feb. 27, 2014, 05:25:56 PM EST

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