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New Let it Snowden, let it Snowden, let it Snowden
Many here may regard the horse as sufficiently flogged following the last lengthy thread, but Pierce this morning is worth reading on this as on just about any subject:
...a former spook named Michael Morell, decided to give career advice to Edward Snowden, who apparently has an insufficient taste for self-immolation, at least by Morell's standards.

He violated the trust put in him by the United States government. He has committed a crime, in my view. You know a whistleblower doesn't run. A whistleblower does not disclose information that has nothing to do with what he says his cause is which is the privacy and civil liberties of Americans. You know if I could talk to Mister Snowden myself, what I would say is, Edward, you say you're a patriot, you say you want to protect the privacy and civil liberties of Americans, you say that you wanted Americans to have a debate about this and to make up their mind about what to do about this. Well, if you really believe that, if you really believe that Americans should be the judge of this program, then you should also believe that the Americans should be the judge of your behavior in this regard. So if you are the patriot that you say you are, you should come home and be judged.

I certainly accept the notion that we should let career intelligence operatives define the parameters of civil disobedience for us. There's a whole passel of illogic in there. First of all, does Morell believe that Snowden's sole "cause" is the privacy and civil liberties of Americans? Does he not think, for example, that the American people have the right to know that their government is hacking the phones of foreign leaders, or should we all just wait around and be mystified when Angela Merkel wakes up one morning pissed as hell at us? And, it may make Mr. Morell uncomfortable, but Americans are perfectly fine with judging Snowden's behavior at a distance. What Morell wants is a trial, in which much of the evidence will have to be secret and a lot of the proceedings will be in closed session. I'd rather just wait for the next edition of the Guardian to arrive.
I note that a number of so-called "intelligence professionals" have made the point that Snowden has no cred unless he submits himself to the travesty of Deep State "justice." I am personally not persuaded.
But, for all Morell's problems with how self-government is supposed to be transparent, his appearance was nothing compared to the full-blown nutty thrown by Congressman Mike Rogers...

ROGERS: Here's where I think he's crossed the line now, George, he has contacted a foreign country and said, I will sell you classified information for something of value. That's what we call a traitor in this country.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You're talking about his open letter to Brazil?

ROGERS: Absolutely. He has traded something of value for his own personal gain that jeopardizes the national security of the United States. We call that treason. And I think that letter -- I think very clearly lays out who this gentleman is and what his intentions were clearly. And so would I like him to come back? He should come back. He didn't use any of the whistleblower protection avenues laid out before him. None. Zero.


Actually, "we" don't call that treason. Here is what We, The People call treason in the document in which We, The People happen to be the first three words.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

That "only" is a nice touch. The Founders, who saw people like Mike Rogers coming from a century-and-a-half off, knew that, if they didn't define treason as tightly as they could, it would become a convenience more than a serious charge, and they knew what that meant. And Brazil is not an enemy of the United States -- except, perhaps, in soccer -- so it doesn't matter what he and his cronies call treason. It only matters what We, The People call it, and that's made pretty plain, so ix-nay on the eason-tray, bub.
http://www.esquire.c...Day_For_Gobshites

cordially,
New from a technical viewpoint Merkel is fair game
from a political viewpoint, not a good idea. Technical as in that it meets the charter of the NSA.
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
New If their charter doesn't explicitly say ...
"... where not prohibited by existing treaty or local, national or international law." does that mean they're clear?
--

Drew
New the constitution doesn't adress non US issues
except when dealing with inter govenmental treaties, executive signs them, senate ratifies them. After 20 years they are no longer in force, standard US behavior dating to all of the early treaties with Indians, Mexico, UK etc. Rules have no meaning to America outside of our borders. Been that way since 1776 why change now?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
New Wow.
I'm almost beginning to think you actually *DO* believe your own spew.
--
greg@gregfolkert.net
"No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." --Stanislaw Jerzy Lec
New You have any evidence to the contrary
that the US wipes its ass with any treaty it doesnt like after a few years? Read a history book.
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
New Curiously enough...
Box is right on this one. As a country, we have a number of faults, but keeping our word is not one of them. It's getting worse. Now we're lying to our own as much as outsiders.
New I think that was the single greatest contribution...
of my nine year old self being in Soviet Russia. That experience taught me at a very young age that my government was fully capable of lying to me.
New Lucky us! 'Twas My Gramma who sowed the fertile seed
of Questioning the unicorns in my 'civics' books..
I owe her much--mainly time and sentimentality saved, about flags and related paraphernalia of jingoism everywhere.
You need to write Your book, too--You vas Dere! Charlie; I reckon not many still above ground possess such experience, and textbooks reveal Nothing.

The kid-brainwashing can be ameliorated only via rilly-good Stories by people who have lived the various 'sides' and Can calmly set-out the +/- experience(s).
I wot.
     Let it Snowden, let it Snowden, let it Snowden - (rcareaga) - (8)
         from a technical viewpoint Merkel is fair game - (boxley) - (7)
             If their charter doesn't explicitly say ... - (drook) - (6)
                 the constitution doesn't adress non US issues - (boxley) - (5)
                     Wow. - (folkert) - (4)
                         You have any evidence to the contrary - (boxley)
                         Curiously enough... - (hnick) - (2)
                             I think that was the single greatest contribution... - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                 Lucky us! 'Twas My Gramma who sowed the fertile seed - (Ashton)

It's one thing to know they're coming...
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