Not really.

Post #38,024 by bepatient 5/9/02 12:28:09 AM Reply	Not really. Look at y'alls reaction to the "faith-based" program he started with. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #38,026 by Brandioch 5/9/02 1:01:27 AM Reply	So he's a Christian, and starts a faith-based program... but we're wrong to point out that Jesus didn't seem to be on the side of war?
Post #38,039 by bepatient 5/9/02 8:35:07 AM Reply	Incorrect assertion.. ...and an all around funny comment coming from you. You are inconsistent in the expectations placed upon him...assuming you agree with the entire message...which was not only about the war. How so? He tries to bring faith based initiatives into the realm as government programs...to receive more funds to do more of God's work (as it were). The opposition SCREAMS about the separation of church and state. Now he conducts (not so pleasant) affairs of the state and the opposition (at least this guy) says he should conduct affairs as if it were a church (what would Jesus do?...is that what Jesus taught you?) I'd throw a hypothetical question out at this point about the reaction of the American people to a "turn the other cheek" response to 9/11...but I know you don't like dealing in hypothetical...like you're allergic or something You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #38,078 by Brandioch 5/9/02 11:53:15 AM Reply	Please don't use phrases you don't understand. You are inconsistent in the expectations placed upon him...assuming you agree with the entire message...which was not only about the war. Negative. I was showing how he is hypocritical. #1. He claims to be Christian. #2. He starts faith-based programs. (follows from #1) #3. He is heavily into war and vengence. (contradicts #1) Now, this contradiction can be cleared up if you can reference where Jesus advocated war or recommended vengence. He tries to bring faith based initiatives into the realm as government programs...to receive more funds to do more of God's work (as it were). The opposition SCREAMS about the separation of church and state. Now you've shifted focus from Bush to "the opposition". Was the letter written to "the opposition"? No. It was addressed to Bush. Now he conducts (not so pleasant) affairs of the state and the opposition (at least this guy) says he should conduct affairs as if it were a church (what would Jesus do?...is that what Jesus taught you?) Again, you've shifted from Bush to "the opposition". And how convinient for you, there is always "the opposition" as there always seems to be someone who disagrees with what he is doing. So, your point is valid if you presume that Rev. Rich Lang and I share the same viewpoint. That is because you have used both of our disagreements (refering to "the opposition") to justify Bush's hypocrisy. Now, since Rev. Rich Lang and I do not share the same viewpoints, your position is invalid. I'd throw a hypothetical question out at this point about the reaction of the American people to a "turn the other cheek" response to 9/11...but I know you don't like dealing in hypothetical...like you're allergic or something Are we talking religion here? Do you believe in Satan and Hell and Temptation? I don't. Therefore, I am not required to "turn the other cheek" in cases such as this. But, by the same token, I believe that your personal fantasies should be kept out of government. No faith-based programs. Separation of Church and State. So, hunt down and prosecute those who attack us and keep your god-fantasies in your head and off the law books.
Post #38,091 by bepatient 5/9/02 2:04:27 PM Reply	Cute... ...so you spend how many words to try and do what...prove that we agree? There is no contradiction...except possibly in the mind of this Reverend and yourself. Bush can be Christian all he wants. His >job< is to represent the will of the citizens of the United States. Unfortunately for this Reverend...that will isn't always representative of what Jesus would do. Oh well. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #38,092 by Brandioch 5/9/02 2:18:14 PM Reply	Actions != belief? Bush can be Christian all he wants. His >job< is to represent the will of the citizens of the United States. Unfortunately for this Reverend...that will isn't always representative of what Jesus would do. I believe this exact situation was covered in the Bible. If I were you, I'd get a new Holy Book. You current one seems to contradict your beliefs.
Post #38,094 by bepatient 5/9/02 2:35:06 PM Reply	What's with the continued use of >your beliefs<? I have never discussed my religious (or lack thereof) beliefs with you..nor anyone else on this board. Actually I have had discussions on religion with Imric...but not in this nor any other forum. And to follow your lead... Don't tell me what you believe...supply me the quote. Facts man...facts! And since we agree in position..my assumption is that you are being difficult just to find fault >something</ANYTHING that I post? You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #38,095 by Brandioch 5/9/02 2:42:56 PM Reply	It's your Holy Book, not mine. If you can't read it, that isn't my problem. Otherwise, this should be moved to "Religion".
Post #38,105 by bepatient 5/9/02 3:07:01 PM Reply	Quote the passage, Brandioch. And I guess >reading< isn't your strong point...in reference to the continued use of >your<. Maybe moving it to Religion is a good idea...since I don't ever participate in that forum it would eliminate the right shift associated with your current behavior (that I've borrowed re: this post's title) You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #38,122 by Brandioch 5/9/02 4:37:42 PM Reply	Pay careful attention. Note how my current style compares to your previous style. Is this flattery or mockery?
Post #38,159 by bepatient 5/9/02 7:52:15 PM Reply	Ooh... ...deep. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #38,102 by boxley 5/9/02 2:59:14 PM Reply	Yes it is covered in the new testament Render unto ceasar that which is ceasar's So bush is happily rending away thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #38,113 by Brandioch 5/9/02 3:53:40 PM Reply	Taxes? [link\|http://www.beliefnet.com/story/20/story_2000_1.html\|Taxing Topics]
Post #38,134 by mmoffitt 5/9/02 6:00:50 PM 5/9/02 6:02:24 PM Reply	Take what you have and give it to the poor. He was a Communist, you know ;-) Edited by mmoffitt May 9, 2002, 06:02:24 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #38,139 by Ashton 5/9/02 6:31:09 PM Reply	Well.. you have to separate out some of his messages Every group has its er esoteric, mesoteric and exoteric circles. It's only fair to consider this in interpreting some of the admonitions of Jesus or any of the other Avatars (well known, that is - many eschew notoriety, it seems). Since "attachment" [to 'things'? 'the world of appearances'? ego? etc.] is said to be the major veil to ever realizing "one's position here" - pretty clearly.. a suggestion to, "give all your stuff to the poor" - is not meant for folks who dwell 100% 24/7 in "Caesar's realm". Imagine how yer average Suit-IQ (with his bare-MBA conditioning and zippo humanities experience / also little 'humanity') would "handle" such a thought (!) These passages are - natch - the ones most apt to be either ridiculed, turned into some cockamamie 'interpretation' or otherwsie screwed up by the 'exoteric' masses (or by any antagonists). At the esoteric level - most popular religions suggest pretty much the same things, but you can't find this out via casual dabbling in Comparative Religion 101. This certainly insures that most religion 'debates' shall soon become circular! Ashton ie. - dunno what JC might have thought about the various recipes for the masses to try to keep from offing each other. Marx wasn't around. I have No doubt though, that "horrified" would describe his response to what has been done in his name - past 2K years. Now if only he'd given his troops a better lecture.. on misogyny \ufffdQuien sabe?
Post #38,151 by Brandioch 5/9/02 7:27:32 PM Reply	En Light in mints? But isn't that the way with just about everything? The message you take away is based upon your current awareness and that is based upon your past. Now, whether the message you hear has anything to do with the message you were given......... And the most profound messages are usually the ones most easily misunderstood. And the most difficult to fully comprehend.
Post #38,177 by Ashton 5/9/02 10:53:29 PM Reply	Nobody said that anything Neat is also Simple ;-) I guess that a one's 'awareness' can be improved - there are certainly exercises aimed at that. And from a "better grade" of awareness [??] -- one builds further. Something like that. (But none of that idea appears to work at the shallow level of 'interest' called curiosity. As to how one recognizes or cultivates Interest.. heh - we know what that is when we notice it.) Wonder what it will take next, to get an actually Interesting President !? -- given that the only near-so one around since ~'60 - is only on Tee Vee fiction.. Cheers, Ashton
Post #38,083 by rsf 5/9/02 12:33:30 PM Reply	We did turn the other cheek... after the first WTC bombing attempt. Then they blew up the Kobe towers. So we turned the other cheek. Then they blew up the USS Cole. So we turned the other cheek. Then they down four planes, both WTC towers, and part of the Pentagon. So...we ran out of cheeks (finally!). Ray

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