Post #37,897
5/8/02 9:17:15 AM
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Reality: is it emotion, is it definition, is it what ?
provocative lead-in to an issue over the use of one word recently = 'massacre'
I am putting forward the proposition that this word no longer has *factual* meaning, only *emotional* definition.
It is a wonderful word for stiring passions ...
But, here are some challenging questions ....
How many people can be massacred in one go ? If Custer's troops were 'massacred' whilst armed & looking for a fight, does this really mean 'winner vs loser' ? Did the dropping of a nuke on Hiroshima (nagasaki) constitute a massacre ? - if not why not ? Did the 'Tien-an-men' massacre really happen as portrayed & what did it mean ? (was it a wonderful propaganda opportunity & statement ?) Was 'Kent State' a massacre ? (sure fits the dictionary definition) Did Israelis 'massacre' Palestinians in Jenin or did it just turn out that the Palestinians failed in their attempt at massacring Israeli soldiers there ? Were the Iraqi soldiers who were buried alive in their trenches by US bulldozers in 1990 gulf war massacred or just war victims ?
The final point ...
Is the word massacre just a downright f***ing blatantly emotional word used for ones own personal propaganda ? - and no longer has any true meaning than can be regulated ?
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Post #37,902
5/8/02 9:28:10 AM
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Massacre has ALWAYS been an adjective
you will not see a perpetrator use it in a sentence, you will always see an opponant use it unless it is a sporting event as opposed to a life shortening experience. thanx, bill
TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
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Post #37,913
5/8/02 11:04:20 AM
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I'll choose "C".
Is the word massacre just a downright f***ing blatantly emotional word used for ones own personal propaganda ? - and no longer has any true meaning than can be regulated ? I'll choose this one. Until such time as it is defined.
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Post #37,919
5/8/02 11:45:17 AM
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Words mean...
...whatever we think they mean. The connotation of any particular word is simply the imagery and symbolism that is evoked in the subject that is listening based on their experience and education.
That said, there are technical terms that are applied to specific fields of study, such as mathematics and science, that have a higher level of specificity when invoked in a specific context. But the word being discussed does not fall under this category.
In the case of using the word massacre, the speaker hopes to evoke images of wanton and unjustified murder and atrocities. As such, it is an emotionally charged term that has a polemic intention. So I guess you could say that massacre is a subjective term, in that it requires judgement between when a murder is malicious and when it is justified. The intent of the perpetrator must be judged to determine whether the word is actually applicable.
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Post #37,920
5/8/02 11:47:44 AM
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One other thing...
...language is not something that is easily "regulated". Any word can be abused or fall into disuse. The meaning of most words is transitory, dependent on the time and context in which they are used.
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Post #37,968
5/8/02 4:28:56 PM
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Whew.. thought from the title there -
that you were asking 'definition' {merely} of *that* which:
some folks spend an entire lifetime either Trying to discover, convincing others that they Have discovered, correcting others.. who have decided that *their experience* is the Same as [this word symbol]. Or - using this word to sell, convince not-to ... and a few hundred other personalized tangents.
ie. perhaps the #1 Most-Abused English Word of ALL (with the possible exception of the phrase, "Hey.. I'm Honest..")
*Reality*.
Fortunately that wasn't your quest. As to your actual question: IMO that answer is - what they said above, and you suggested.
Ashton Saved from moving a thread to the metaphysical forum (which also would have done no good.. :-)
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Post #38,207
5/10/02 10:03:39 AM
5/10/02 10:08:36 AM
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That's an interesting question
That's an interesting question. To be honest I had never really thought about it before. It's certainly (now) one of those emotive words designed to achieve more than simply portraying events. It definitely conjures up images of innocents being killed for no good reason.
But it is curious how its use seems to be reserved for certain situations. The word seems (perhaps oddly) inappropriate for use during wartime. Not saying the word has never been used in this context.....just that it often seems to be avoided (perhaps because it is redundant?). Was the bombing of London a massacre? Was Dresden a massacre? I know....I'm just echoing your own questions here.
For me the word seems to suggest an element of unnecessary and unanticipated killing.
I think you are right that the word does seem to be getting used as a political self-serving club for anybody who wants to shcok the world into taking their side.
To your questions I would add:
1) What was it about the events that caused us to call it "The St. Valentines Day massacre?"
2) Why is it that massacre seems somehow inappropriate for 9/11? (perhaps because the word is not strong enough?)
3) Is it only a massacre (or not) when viewed in the context of the culture of those witnessing the event? (one man's massacre is another man's martyrdom?)
4) If you are an animal rights activist...do the daily events at our abbatoirs satisfy the conditions to be called a massacre.
-- William Shatner's Trousers --
Edited by Mike
May 10, 2002, 10:08:36 AM EDT
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Post #38,257
5/10/02 3:35:48 PM
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Start with baby steps
I'm not going to try to give a complete definition of massacre here, but at least one component.
A massacre must involve the killing of unarmed unresisting civilians, or disarmed unresisting surrendered soldiers, or mass killings in areas unable to or not contributing to a war effort. (Note one does have to include the provision "unresisting" because many/most soldiers and at least some civilians are trained in hand-to-hand combat and would pose a threat even if totally disarmed.)
An example of a possible component: a police officer shooting an unarmed criminal in the back. Another example of a probable component: throwing a grenade through a window when there is little reason to believe occupants of the room behind the window are dangerous.
As an aside, I would argue that the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were arguably massacres, because by that time Japanese industry (even if Hiroshima and Nagasaki were producing as much munitions as they could) had been so reduced in productive capability that their military significance had been greatly reduced. (By this argument, one can also argue that the fire-bombing of Tokyo itself was not a massacre although it did inflict massive civilian casualties; Tokyo at the time was very much contributing to their industrial war production and its industries could not have been effectively selectively targeted even if the technological capability had existed at the time. But I grant you that this can be argued either way.)
An example of a probable non-component: the Cincinnati riots last year were started when a police officer shot an unarmed black teenager who was apparently making motions consistent with pulling a gun out of his pants. In another incident, an apparently crazed man came after police with a brick and subsequently died after they shot him. Another example of a non-component: a civilian throwing rocks or otherwise threatening the health and livelihood of a policemen or soldier, who shoots back. (One can argue that the officer or soldier *could* have used rubber bullets, beanbag guns, or other methods to disperse the threatening civilian, but such is based on decisions made on the spot and hard to second-guess.)
What numbers you might put on it, I cannot venture to guess. In partial violation of my first sentence, I would argue that one such death is murder, rather than a massacre. I won't try to argue at this time where "murder" ends and "massacre" begins.
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Post #38,263
5/10/02 4:29:49 PM
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ie it is a word doomed to be used/abused - emotionally.
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