I can believe in OO and GPL

Post #37,409 by tonytib 5/3/02 8:26:26 PM Reply	I can believe in OO and GPL I have faith that Sun would keep SO open....except if SO takes over the market. But, IIRC the file format is being promoted by Open Office, which is GPL. Still, it'd be good to check for any 'gotchas' (like IBM's web services patents) -- Sun could still torpedo things later if they have any OO/SO file format patents. You'll probably want to check out OO's standards process; I need to look into it myself. The advantage of being promoted by a Office suite provider is that it can gain users -- I seriously doubt a file format from on high will gain many users, while the OO file format gains all the OO/SO users. BTW, from my use of the SO beta, with compression the file format is reasonably compact -- much smaller than SO5. Besides, I think both SO and OO benefit from Sun's desire to put MS's cash cow on a diet. I doubt there's a filter already available for Office, but given that the code is available, that should make it easier to do. Tony
Post #37,413 by Brandioch 5/3/02 9:42:39 PM Reply	I'd like to see a different approach. The advantage of being promoted by a Office suite provider is that it can gain users -- I seriously doubt a file format from on high will gain many users, while the OO file format gains all the OO/SO users. But I don't think that is the best approach. If SO/OO never has any decent marketshare, then their file format won't either. What I'd like to see is the standardization of the file format so that any suite can read/write it. With 100% accuracy. That way, I can take my documents today and know I can read them no matter what suite I'm using 5 years from now. Data permanency. I think the goal should be that ANY document written on ANY platform with ANY suite be 100% interchangable. Unfortunately, that means that any company supporting it will have to release all claims to it. Otherwise, I can't see any other company supporting it.
Post #37,641 by tonytib 5/6/02 1:09:12 PM Reply	I still think that might happen with OO file format but I'll need to do some more research on the OO project. Right now, I'm crunched for time, but before I finally commit to OO / SO, I'll look into: 1. The politics -- how does the file format get defined? How does the definition change? Are there any patents that could affect it? (The result should answer the question, is the format politically tied to OO/SO or are they willing to release control of it?) 2. The technology -- how do I like their use of XML? Their choice of compression technology? Is it tightly tied to the requirements of OO/SO or is it more general? (The answers here should give me an idea if it would be a good base for a file format that could be widely adopted). The only way I see your approach working is if the court imposes such a requirement on MS, which unfortunately isn't likely to happen. Frankly, getting away from proprietary data formats is more important than getting away from proprietary OS's. Tony
Post #37,656 by imric 5/6/02 3:29:41 PM Reply	I wuz lookin' at the file formats - this is what I've found so far.... The [link\|http://www.openoffice.org/licenses/sissl_license.html\|Sun Industry Standards Source License] and the LGPL seem to be the relevant licenses here... I also checked the help(?!) and found this: XML file format names If in the dialogs for saving and opening OpenOffice.org documents you do not select any other file type, OpenOffice.org uses the following XML formats: Application File extension OpenOffice.org Writer . sxw OpenOffice.org Writer templates .stw OpenOffice.org Calc .sxc OpenOffice.org Calc templates .stc OpenOffice.org Impress .sxi OpenOffice.org Impress templates .sti OpenOffice.org Draw .sxd OpenOffice.org Draw templates .std OpenOffice.org Math .sxm Master documents .sxg These file name extensions on the one hand allow better differentiation if you are searching though a lot of files of different file types in a directory. And on the other, from the name, it is clear that compressed XML files are involved that must first be unpacked before being read, for example, by a text editor. If you want to work permanently with another file format, you can define that format as the default. Choose Tools - Options - Load/Save - General to find alternative file formats that can be selected for each OpenOffice.org document type. XML file structure The OpenOffice.org XML file formats are compressed according to the ZIP method. Use an unpacking program of your choice to unpack the content of an XML file with your subdirectories. You see a structure similar to the following illustration. <snip>... ...</snip> The text content of the document is located in content.xml. You can view this file with, for example, a pure text editor. By default content.xml without indents is stored at the start of the line in order to minimize the time for saving and opening. By choosing Tools - Options - Load/Save - General you can change this procedure so that the lines are saved with a structured indent. meta.xml contains, inter alia, the meta information on the document, which you can enter underFile - Properties. If you save a document with security, only meta.xml is not secured. settings.xml contains further information on settings for this document, for example on the printer, on the recording of changes, the associated data sources and so on. In styles.xml you find the Styles defined for the document that can, for example, be seen in the Stylist. The meta-inf/manifest.xml file describes the structure of the XML file. Additional files can be contained in the packed file format. Illustrations are, for example, contained in a Pictures subdirectory, Basic code in a Basic subdirectory and linked Basic libraries are found in further subdirectories of Basic. Definition of the XML formats The DTD (Document Type Description) files can be found in {installpath}\\share\\dtd. Note that the formats are subject to certain licenses. You can find notes on the licenses at the start of the DTD files. More detailed information can be found on the OpenOffice.org website. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #37,697 by Brandioch 5/6/02 10:04:48 PM Reply	Not our courts. The only way I see your approach working is if the court imposes such a requirement on MS, which unfortunately isn't likely to happen. I don't see the court imposing this restriction on MS. But I do see the various governments imposing this REQUIREMENT on MS. Germany would be a great place to start. They've already decided to go non-MS for their servers. So, all MS apps used in Germany must have the filter installed and be set to save (by default) all work in the standard, open, format. Then, anyone wanting to send electronic documents to the German government would require the appropriate filter (this is why it needs to be Open and free (beer)). It wouldn't matter what word processor you used, they could all read the documents and handle the exchange with 100% accuracy. Done in this manner, even if MS retained its desktop monopoly, the freedom to use a different suite would be there. As long as that suite had the filters. As for who handles the standard? I'm starting to prefer an international body. I don't know enough to guess who would do it, though. Anyone have any suggestions?
Post #37,790 by tonytib 5/7/02 1:25:04 PM Reply	Yes, it would be great if that happened; maybe ECMA for stds

Welcome to IWETHEY!