protect the nation from any imminent threat of attack

Post #370,930 by boxley 2/6/13 11:45:10 AM Reply	protect the nation from any imminent threat of attack eating lunch at an outdoor restaurant is a long way away from imminent Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 57 years. meep
Post #370,931 by Another Scott 2/6/13 11:58:41 AM Reply	Innocents die in war. Film at 11. :-/
Post #370,932 by mmoffitt 2/6/13 12:01:33 PM Reply	At least the trains run on time.
Post #370,933 by Another Scott 2/6/13 12:08:06 PM Reply	Read me in my posts. What's your alternative?
Post #370,934 by boxley 2/6/13 12:11:29 PM Reply	Innocents targeted deliberately die in war. yes they do Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 57 years. meep
Post #370,935 by Another Scott 2/6/13 12:17:43 PM Reply	Eh? Your statement is ambiguous. The missile presumably hit the coordinates it was aimed at. I don't think the intent in firing the missile was to kill a 16 year old kid. Do you? http://en.wikipedia....lrahman_al-Aulaqi Two U.S. officials speaking on condition of anonymity stated that the target of the October 14, 2011 airstrike was Ibrahim al-Banna, an Egyptian believed to be a senior operative in Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.[3] Another U.S. administration official described Abdulrahman al-Aulaqi as a bystander who was "in the wrong place at the wrong time", stating that "the U.S. government did not know that Mr. AwlakiÂs son was there" before the airstrike was ordered.[3] FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
Post #370,936 by drook 2/6/13 12:20:37 PM Reply	Well that's OK then Collaterally damaging any old 16-year-old is fine, so long as they aren't intentionally killing any specific 16-year-old. -- Drew
Post #370,937 by Another Scott 2/6/13 12:29:18 PM Reply	What's the alternative you're proposing? You know better than me that war is a messy business. It's never clean, and innocents always get the brunt of it no matter how careful or righteous the belligerents are. That was my point. http://www.balloon-j...y-your-life-away/ The memo was released a prior to tomorrowÂs confirmation hearing for John Brennan, and heÂs going to face Âtough questionsÂ. IÂm sure heÂs going to be wearing incontinence pads and popping Ativan to deal with the fear of dealing with a bunch of grandstanding prima donna do nothing windbags who havenÂt yet lifted a legislative finger on the drone war, and wonÂt do it in the future. DiFi, Rocky IV and the rest are going to vote to confirm after a little fussing, and that will be that. I realize that weÂre all supposed to be shocked and outraged that the Obama administration is running an undeclared drone war, and feel free to express that in the comments, but letÂs not lose sight of the fact that Congress has essentially ceded the war power to the Executive Branch, so weÂre going to be governed by shady memos instead of law when it comes to the use of our shiny killing machines. (Emphasis added.) As long as the Executive can make a plausible argument that what they're doing is covered under the AUMF, then there's nothing illegal about what they're doing under US law. (And dropping a Hellfire on a microbus in Colorado Springs doesn't fit under that.) People who don't like what the President is doing need to change the law. That pretty well sums it up AFAICS. Congress needs to step up and end (or dramatically rein in) the AUMF. Cheers, Scott.
Post #370,940 by drook 2/6/13 1:59:59 PM Reply	Wasn't my point Agree with your point re: the AUMF. But in this case, the "shocked, shocked I say" question is, "Are you really targeting 16-year-olds now?" And the answer is, "No, he just happened to be in the way." Well okay, as long as you didn't mean to kill him, I guess that's just fine. -- Drew
Post #370,941 by Another Scott 2/6/13 2:21:43 PM Reply	Maybe I'm being dense... The outrage about killing/assassinating/murdering/droning Americans seems to be expressed in terms of deliberate decisions by Obama to target those he doesn't-like/views-as-enemies/has-determined-are-people-covered-by-the-AUMF. The remedy often proposed has usually involved judicial oversight ("due process of law"). It seems to me that if an American was killed in an operation but wasn't known to be there or wasn't the target, then judicial oversight wouldn't cover it anyway. The remedy can't address that problem. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me. If your point is that it's counter-productive to drone people, I think that's an argument that can be had. But that's not a legal argument, it seems to me. But I don't see how all of the outrage and the proposed remedies apply when someone is killed accidentally in an operation. IOW, I was responding to Box's apparent claim that the 16-year-old was targeted by Obama. He wasn't. I think the distinction does matter, legally, because the remedy must be via a change in the law (it seems to me). Congress can fix this by changing the law - I'm glad you agree on that. HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #370,947 by hnick 2/6/13 4:41:08 PM Reply	Oh boy... Was he targeted or was he not? Doesn't matter. Obama doesn't have to say. He can declare anyone over 16 a target for living in the wrong neighborhood. There's no terribly good reason why Colorado Springs can't be a bad neighborhood if he declares the war is there. Oh... bad law... Must change bad law! They have a mechanism for that: If it gives more power to them, it's bipartisan; if it takes power away, the good guys propose wonderful changes and the designated bad guys block it. Don't got the votes, folks! Don't worry, we'll fix it later. What about LGBT issues? Over there! Shiny! We've never seen this before? Really? It would probably be a lot more productive to get him a WOW membership and a game box filled with first person shooters, and just hope that it gets some of this out of his system.
Post #370,939 by boxley 2/6/13 12:59:51 PM Reply	This Ibrahim al Banna? http://armiesofliber...-hadramout-yemen/ This Ibrahim al Banna? ( http://armiesofliber...=ibrahim+al+banna) The undead, previously arrested, tried & convicted somehow free again long time al Qaeda operative? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 57 years. meep

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