Hey AS and MM

Post #368,574 by crazy 12/27/12 8:06:06 AM Reply	Hey AS and MM http://www.reuters.c...BRE8BO07D20121225 "We can say for some people that cannabis comes first and psychosis comes second, but for some people they have some (undiagnosed) psychosis (and) perhaps cannabis makes them feel better," said Dr. Marta Di Forti, of King's College, London, who was not involved with the new research. Di Forti, who has studied the link between pot and psychosis, told Reuters Health she considers pot a risk factor for psychosis - not a cause. nyah nyah
Post #368,643 by mmoffitt 12/28/12 11:11:04 AM Reply	Why did you stop your quote there? The following paragraphs read: Seeger, who was also not involved with the new study, said that there needs to be more public awareness of the connection. "I think the marijuana is not a harmless substance. Especially for teenagers, there should be more of a public health message out there that marijuana has a public health risk," he said. Griffith-Lendering agrees. "Given the severity and impact of psychotic disorders, prevention programs should take this information into consideration," she said. Oh, wait, I know why you didn't include that last bit.
Post #368,645 by drook 12/28/12 11:20:01 AM Reply	Because he was making a policy recommendation There has been a very strong public health message for several decades. It clearly isn't working, because the message has been mostly exaggeration and misinformation. If the truth doesn't get the reaction you want, you don't get to make up lies, but that's what's been happening. (No, I don't mean you you are lying.) -- Drew
Post #368,646 by mmoffitt 12/28/12 11:24:21 AM Reply	I think the point Scott was making ... is that it needs more study. Which is essentially what the article states. I took exception to crazy's out of context, incomplete quote that would lead one to think otherwise.
Post #368,647 by drook 12/28/12 11:32:33 AM Reply	Your quote doesn't say "needs more study" It says there is a public health danger and that we do need a stronger message to teens especially. -- Drew
Post #369,267 by mmoffitt 1/7/13 1:18:03 PM Reply	That was my inference from the whole article. 1) It's the egg for some people. 2) It's the chicken for some people. Conclusion: We don't really know exactly how or why this works. We should study it more. YMMV.
Post #369,272 by drook 1/7/13 1:32:38 PM Reply	I've seen that in far too many health studies There was another one on the news recently about fecal bacteriotherapy -- http://en.wikipedia....l_bacteriotherapy. It's cheap, simple, and works. So of course various teams are trying to isolate something from it that they can create in (patentable) pill form. Here's the thing: We don't really know exactly how or why this works. Let me fix that for you: ~~We don't really know exactly how or why~~ this works. [full stop] -- Drew
Post #369,276 by mmoffitt 1/7/13 1:38:17 PM Reply	Nice try. The article doesn't say "it works." It says "it works sometimes and sometimes it makes things worse." To me, that means the question as to whether or not "it's good" is left open to further inquiry. (Again, YMMV). BTW, I'm not unsympathetic to arguments against allopathic medicine's reductionist approach to research. But that's not the topic of this thread.
Post #368,724 by crazy 12/30/12 9:41:18 AM Reply	No, I ALWAYS say people should wait for adulthood I know it has a variety of effects that are NOT desired, and people need to balance what they use it for. And the hormonal affects can fuck up young adults directly. Continuously stating a position that is not mine as if it was mine really does you no good. My point is there is a certain portion of the population that should not use it because they are going to crack sooner or later, and THC will trigger them to crack sooner. The fact it triggers THEM to crack sooner is not a reason to prohibit it for everyone else. Anything else you need me to clarify? And moving on to ACUTE anti-inflammatory/pain killer: The boy (25) has mono. Doctor test confirmed. It's killing him. Or at least he wishes he would die. Throat inflamed, tough to swallow. No opiates handy, high dose ibuprofen does nothing, and he can't smoke anything with his throat like this, even via a vaporizer. Had not eaten (starving) or slept (too much pain and STARVING) in 2 days. Take 1 gram of cannabis oil extract ($30) in a small jar. Put 20 dropperfuls of glycerin (20 cents) in (absorbs THC, delivers to body via sublingual and regular digestion, no harsh alcohol tincture). Warm on stove, shake the hell out of it. Here: Take 2 dropperfuls, wait one hour, tell me how you feel. An hour later he was quiet in his room. I did not bother him. 4 hours later he was back on the couch, a bit whiny, eating. So: How'd it work? Him: I dunno, I was asleep. me: (smile)
Post #368,650 by Another Scott 12/28/12 12:10:42 PM Reply	Not understanding your point. Here's the full abstract from the paper: http://onlinelibrary...6A81DF8469.d02t02 Keywords: Cannabis; vulnerability for psychosis; adolescence Abstract (205 words) Aims To examine the direction of the longitudinal association between vulnerability for psychosis and cannabis use throughout adolescence. Design Cross-lagged path analysis was used to identify the temporal order of vulnerability for psychosis and cannabis use, while controlling for gender, family psychopathology, alcohol use and tobacco use. Setting A large prospective population study of Dutch adolescents [the TRacking Adolescents′ Individual Lives Survey (TRAILS) study]. Participants A total of 2,120 adolescents with assessments at (mean) age 13.6, age 16.3 and age 19.1. Measurements Vulnerability for psychosis at the three assessment points was represented by latent factors derived from scores on three scales of the Youth Self Report and the Adult Self Report, i.e. Thought Problems, Social Problems and Attention Problems. Participants self- reported on cannabis use during the past year at all three waves. Findings Significant associations (r=.12-.23) were observed between psychosis vulnerability and cannabis use at all assessments. Also, cannabis use at age 16 predicted psychosis vulnerability at age 19 (z=2.6, p<.05). Furthermore, psychosis vulnerability at ages 13 (z=2.0, p<.05) and 16 (z=3.0, p<.05) predicted cannabis use at, respectively, ages 16 and 19. Conclusions Cannabis use predicts psychosis vulnerability in adolescents, and vice versa which suggests that there is a bi-directional causal association between the two. I think the important results are in the "Findings" and in the "Conclusions" section. The word "bidirectional" doesn't support your apparent belief that smoked pot is well understood, compatible (or not) with people "just like sex" - http://forum.iwethey...iwt?postid=367710 - , that people just need to exercise afterward and wait 10 minutes to be safe to drive, etc. (See, I can distill your posts in deceptive ways, too. Infuriating, isn't it? :-p) Once again, here's a distillation of my thoughts on the topic: http://forum.iwethey...iwt?postid=367755 HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #368,659 by drook 12/28/12 1:54:06 PM Reply	Or as I said before ... The world doesn't suck because people self-medicate. People self-medicate because the world sucks. -- Drew
Post #368,725 by crazy 12/30/12 9:48:33 AM Reply	But I support no adolescent use http://forum.iwethey...iwt?postid=368724 Have fun with that straw man.
Post #368,727 by Another Scott 12/30/12 10:01:49 AM Reply	Why did you call us out in the start of this thread? I still don't understand the point you were trying to make there. Thanks. Cheers, Scott.
Post #368,740 by mmoffitt 12/30/12 12:56:21 PM Reply	Maybe... because we haven't posted to the thread that won't die in while? ;0)
Post #368,742 by crazy 12/30/12 2:58:06 PM Reply	Not untill they cart you off to jail for persecuting people who aren't harming you.
Post #368,786 by hnick 12/31/12 9:10:00 AM Reply	They don't do that here. This is the U.S. Anybody can persecute anyone else as long as there is a profit in it for a big money special interest. Got to keep things polarized and the jails full, you know.
Post #368,789 by mmoffitt 12/31/12 9:24:53 AM Reply	You vastly overstate my powers.
Post #368,958 by crazy 1/3/13 8:12:11 AM Reply	Intentions count
Post #369,260 by crazy 1/7/13 10:36:07 AM Reply	And here is the double blind study to prove it kills pain http://www.alternet....ematic-nerve-pain
Post #369,275 by Another Scott 1/7/13 1:38:08 PM Reply	It's only a 30% reduction. The subjects got a ~ 30% reduction in pain, not elimination. It's not unexpected, either. E.g. this study from 2011 - http://www.ncbi.nlm....v/pubmed/22048225 FWIW. Cheers, Scott.

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