I think his point was...

Post #36,848 by Arkadiy 4/29/02 8:38:13 PM Reply	I think his point was... ... in our world nowadays, a country can call itself your friend while spying on you, and not be lying. It's not true for persons, but true for countries. Friends spy on friends, that's the modern world for you.
Post #36,858 by Brandioch 4/29/02 10:23:32 PM Reply	Countries don't have friends. They have allies. A country can call itself your friend and still spy on you. A country can call itself your friend and do anything it wants to. Now, is a country that is spying on you actually your friend/ally? Nope. I don't see any distinction between what a country does and what an individual does. Countries just tend toward larger scales.
Post #36,863 by rsf 4/30/02 1:50:31 AM Reply	Trust.....but verify Ray
Post #36,973 by Arkadiy 4/30/02 5:39:19 PM Reply	That was exactly what I was trying to say... and failed, I guess. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, is a country that is spying on you actually your friend/ally? Nope. <<<<<<<<<<<<<< I _was_ trying to say (as did Marlowe before me) that in this FUd world you ally can spy on you and still be a true ally. I'd be very surprised if England has no "extra access" to some of our secrets. Or France. Or Germany. Why should Israel be different?
Post #36,983 by Ashton 4/30/02 6:21:32 PM Reply	Close enough. The mourned loss of "Statesmanship" may well be due to the ascent of that oxymoron, "bizness ethics", pioneered in our time by Billy n'Bally. So while the above er 'contradictions' regarding the expected actions of "friends / allies / co-combatants" in war (or not-quite-yet-war) times have always been with us: Seems to me that the general slothfulness we see today marks a new low, the infection of (most all) National ergo International behavior - as if a Nation were an IT Bizness run by drop-out barbarians, uncivilized by the socialization process. These may be the final symptoms of the Corporatizing of the world, making redundant - surely obsolescent - even a pretense of humane considerations for those unfortunate individuals who have committed the Large$t crime of capitalist theory: being / remaining poor. Naturally the Spin begins \ufffd here. BS-speak has replaced all semblance of social intercourse, from the UN on down to Walmart (recently caught in the South-US: paying black workers ~ $5.10/hr less than white workers. And when called on it - fought back with threatened arrest of peaceful demonstrators.. til local public opinion / notoriety forced capitulation). But that was at just One Walmart... You have to deal with it One at a Time. And so it goes - Ashton

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