Weren't the Israelis caught spying on us?

Post #36,794 by Brandioch 4/29/02 2:29:45 PM Reply	Weren't the Israelis caught spying on us? We may or may not know what to believe, but we certainly know who not to believe. I REALLY have to admire your "logic". Israel not only was caught spying on us, they also lobbied to have the spy pardoned by Clinton. So, based upon your "logic", we shouldn't believe Israel. After all, they SAY they're your friend and then get caught with a spy in your government. After all nobody tells just one lie. So you're saying that Israel might be lieing about the current situation?
Post #36,799 by boxley 4/29/02 3:06:41 PM Reply	Sweeping generalizations designated as "Truths" dont let the facts get in Marlowes way, he's on a roll. thanx, Bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #36,801 by inthane-chan 4/29/02 3:16:12 PM Reply	While on principle I agree with you... I have one little nit to pick. Isn't just about everybody spying on everybody else, ally or no? I mean, what's with that whole Echelon thing, if not to give U.S. businesses inside information on contracts 'n deals in other countries, including our allies. "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #36,807 by Ashton 4/29/02 3:42:29 PM Reply	Obv cite: "We ARE 'The Lying Species'".______QED?
Post #36,827 by marlowe 4/29/02 5:46:19 PM Reply	Spying is hardly in the same league as lying... except maybe on planet Brandioch. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Truth is that which is the case. Accept no substitutes. If competence is considered "hubris" then may I and my country always be as "arrogant" as we can possibly manage.
Post #36,831 by Brandioch 4/29/02 6:21:11 PM Reply	Now that is amusing. "Honey, do you like my mother?" "Yes, Dear." That is a lie. Paying someone to break into your girlfriend's apartment and search through her stuff for items or information..... That is spying. As for whom you should believe. I'm sure everyone here knows which guy they would recommend their sister / niece / friend / whatever NOT be dating. Well, everyone except you. After all, "no one tells just one lie". Maybe if you got out into the real world a bit more, you'd understand the situation.
Post #36,848 by Arkadiy 4/29/02 8:38:13 PM Reply	I think his point was... ... in our world nowadays, a country can call itself your friend while spying on you, and not be lying. It's not true for persons, but true for countries. Friends spy on friends, that's the modern world for you.
Post #36,858 by Brandioch 4/29/02 10:23:32 PM Reply	Countries don't have friends. They have allies. A country can call itself your friend and still spy on you. A country can call itself your friend and do anything it wants to. Now, is a country that is spying on you actually your friend/ally? Nope. I don't see any distinction between what a country does and what an individual does. Countries just tend toward larger scales.
Post #36,863 by rsf 4/30/02 1:50:31 AM Reply	Trust.....but verify Ray
Post #36,973 by Arkadiy 4/30/02 5:39:19 PM Reply	That was exactly what I was trying to say... and failed, I guess. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, is a country that is spying on you actually your friend/ally? Nope. <<<<<<<<<<<<<< I _was_ trying to say (as did Marlowe before me) that in this FUd world you ally can spy on you and still be a true ally. I'd be very surprised if England has no "extra access" to some of our secrets. Or France. Or Germany. Why should Israel be different?
Post #36,983 by Ashton 4/30/02 6:21:32 PM Reply	Close enough. The mourned loss of "Statesmanship" may well be due to the ascent of that oxymoron, "bizness ethics", pioneered in our time by Billy n'Bally. So while the above er 'contradictions' regarding the expected actions of "friends / allies / co-combatants" in war (or not-quite-yet-war) times have always been with us: Seems to me that the general slothfulness we see today marks a new low, the infection of (most all) National ergo International behavior - as if a Nation were an IT Bizness run by drop-out barbarians, uncivilized by the socialization process. These may be the final symptoms of the Corporatizing of the world, making redundant - surely obsolescent - even a pretense of humane considerations for those unfortunate individuals who have committed the Large$t crime of capitalist theory: being / remaining poor. Naturally the Spin begins \ufffd here. BS-speak has replaced all semblance of social intercourse, from the UN on down to Walmart (recently caught in the South-US: paying black workers ~ $5.10/hr less than white workers. And when called on it - fought back with threatened arrest of peaceful demonstrators.. til local public opinion / notoriety forced capitulation). But that was at just One Walmart... You have to deal with it One at a Time. And so it goes - Ashton
Post #36,850 by a6l6e6x 4/29/02 8:52:10 PM Reply	They have done worse. Remember [link\|http://www.ussliberty.org/\|USS Liberty] June 8, 1967? It may have been before your time, but definitely not before mine. With "friends" like this,... Alex "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." -- Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Post #36,859 by Brandioch 4/29/02 10:26:23 PM Reply	Nope. You're wrong. The Israelis do NOT lie. Because once you've caught them in ONE lie, you know they're liars. And if the Israelis are liars and the Palestinians are liars then you won't know who you can't believe. Which directly contradicts Marlowe's "truth". -or- Renders it useless as you will know you can't believe either. -but- If you can't believe them and they're telling the truth can you not believe the truth? Life is a LOT more complicated than moronic jingoists would have you believe. And >THAT< is the Truth.

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