Why would she have hated universal healhcare?

but isn't Medicare a US example of universal healthcare?
Isn't Medicare well run and well regarded and for a medically demanding demographic at that?
Do Americans not commonly meet the elderly?

#1 - Not universal. If you have "too much", and by "too much", I mean any money or house or property over a trivial amount then you don't "qualify", which in turn means you have to spend down to no savings and you are not allow to transfer your proprty to your kids.

#2 - Well run means better run than the for profit insurance companies which then means more for services and less for skimming, but other than that, the Doctors hate it (it may or may not cover their services) and the patients hate it (many doctors refuse to be part of it, and those that are have to get into an assembly line mentality to see enough patients to make it work for them.

#3 - Depends. "Americans" are made up of many culturally distinct subgroups. But the original "melting pot" mentality (which was drilled into me as a kid) is no longer there. Melting pot meant people had to give up their original culture to blend with whatever is bubbling there already, but no longer. A core bit us the US mythology is individuals going off on their own (ignoring the supporting country, roads, armies, plice, water company, refigerated shipping, massive electrical grid, etc), and building their lives with their new family.

Kids are expected to grow up, get the fuck out, and NOT return. The economy does not allow for that in most cases now, but that is (was) the norm. Parents are expected to restart their lives and have a 2nd half of fun and relaxation (now that the kids are gone and money isn't as tight). Kids may visit their parents, but the core family structure does NOT include transgenerational family groups.

There are many "nursing homes" that the old are warehoused in while they are waiting to die. The staff may or may not care, the kids may or may not visit. Even if some of the staff do care, the operation is driven by cost-cutting and profit seeking, so anything less that can be done for ther patients (to increase prifit) will be considered. An owner may simply not order supplies and tell the staff to do without for a week. And then see how long he can stretch it. People could be dying (and often are) due to these financial decisions, but the people in charge don't care and the staff are overwhelmed.

A core piece of the culture is kids breaking away from their parents and starting a new life, often FAR away. Keep in mind that the USA is so big that it is a HUGE decision (in time, cost, and other resources) to visit the folks. So often a single kid of the bunch is left hanging local, taking care of the parants (poorly) or visiting them in the nursing home (rarely).

Also, many of us simply will NOT deal with it. My mom (crazy old lady) lives in FL with her husband. I haven't seen her in about 15 years. As she hits her final years (next 10 or so), it is very unlikely I'll be visiting her. Neither will the rest of my family. The pain of the interaction is not worth the minor enjjoyment, and the guilt has been washed away many years ago so no manipulation.

On the other hand, when we got this new(old) house, my wife made sure we have extra rooms for her parents to live in while they die. Shes a geriatric nurse who is quite capable of caring for them on their way out, and she is horrifed about kids dumping their parents in nursing homes.

Everyone (AFAIK) qualifies for Medicare when they turn 65. It looks like families with incomes above $448k per year still qualify - http://www.medicare....p?version=default

Medicaid is different and has income limits. When people are elderly, Medicaid eligibility becomes an issue because Medicare does not pay for nursing home care the way Medicaid does. So they have to "spend down" their assets to qualify.

On #2, I only need to say "Keep your hands off my Medicare!" http://www.nytimes.c...%20webster&st=cse People who think that they can get a Hoveround power chair for free when they need it - http://www.hoveround.com/ - think it's a good system that they've paid for...

HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.

Post #361,143 by warmachine 7/22/12 3:53:46 AM Reply	Why would she have hated universal healhcare? Her reasons for distrusting universal healthcare seem to be based on ignorance, which would normally be unsurprising, but isn't Medicare a US example of universal healthcare? Isn't Medicare well run and well regarded and for a medically demanding demographic at that? Do Americans not commonly meet the elderly? -------------------------------------------- Matthew Greet I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.
Post #361,144 by crazy 7/22/12 7:33:37 AM Reply	No, no, and not really but isn't Medicare a US example of universal healthcare? Isn't Medicare well run and well regarded and for a medically demanding demographic at that? Do Americans not commonly meet the elderly? #1 - Not universal. If you have "too much", and by "too much", I mean any money or house or property over a trivial amount then you don't "qualify", which in turn means you have to spend down to no savings and you are not allow to transfer your proprty to your kids. #2 - Well run means better run than the for profit insurance companies which then means more for services and less for skimming, but other than that, the Doctors hate it (it may or may not cover their services) and the patients hate it (many doctors refuse to be part of it, and those that are have to get into an assembly line mentality to see enough patients to make it work for them. #3 - Depends. "Americans" are made up of many culturally distinct subgroups. But the original "melting pot" mentality (which was drilled into me as a kid) is no longer there. Melting pot meant people had to give up their original culture to blend with whatever is bubbling there already, but no longer. A core bit us the US mythology is individuals going off on their own (ignoring the supporting country, roads, armies, plice, water company, refigerated shipping, massive electrical grid, etc), and building their lives with their new family. Kids are expected to grow up, get the fuck out, and NOT return. The economy does not allow for that in most cases now, but that is (was) the norm. Parents are expected to restart their lives and have a 2nd half of fun and relaxation (now that the kids are gone and money isn't as tight). Kids may visit their parents, but the core family structure does NOT include transgenerational family groups. There are many "nursing homes" that the old are warehoused in while they are waiting to die. The staff may or may not care, the kids may or may not visit. Even if some of the staff do care, the operation is driven by cost-cutting and profit seeking, so anything less that can be done for ther patients (to increase prifit) will be considered. An owner may simply not order supplies and tell the staff to do without for a week. And then see how long he can stretch it. People could be dying (and often are) due to these financial decisions, but the people in charge don't care and the staff are overwhelmed. A core piece of the culture is kids breaking away from their parents and starting a new life, often FAR away. Keep in mind that the USA is so big that it is a HUGE decision (in time, cost, and other resources) to visit the folks. So often a single kid of the bunch is left hanging local, taking care of the parants (poorly) or visiting them in the nursing home (rarely). Also, many of us simply will NOT deal with it. My mom (crazy old lady) lives in FL with her husband. I haven't seen her in about 15 years. As she hits her final years (next 10 or so), it is very unlikely I'll be visiting her. Neither will the rest of my family. The pain of the interaction is not worth the minor enjjoyment, and the guilt has been washed away many years ago so no manipulation. On the other hand, when we got this new(old) house, my wife made sure we have extra rooms for her parents to live in while they die. Shes a geriatric nurse who is quite capable of caring for them on their way out, and she is horrifed about kids dumping their parents in nursing homes.
Post #361,145 by Another Scott 7/22/12 9:40:36 AM Reply	Aren't you confusing Medicare and Medicaid? Everyone (AFAIK) qualifies for Medicare when they turn 65. It looks like families with incomes above $448k per year still qualify - http://www.medicare....p?version=default Medicaid is different and has income limits. When people are elderly, Medicaid eligibility becomes an issue because Medicare does not pay for nursing home care the way Medicaid does. So they have to "spend down" their assets to qualify. On #2, I only need to say "Keep your hands off my Medicare!" http://www.nytimes.c...%20webster&st=cse People who think that they can get a Hoveround power chair for free when they need it - http://www.hoveround.com/ - think it's a good system that they've paid for... HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #361,157 by crazy 7/22/12 7:02:11 PM Reply	No, I conflated them Poor old folks deal with both, and as you pointed out, the one with the income limits is also the one that will pay for the old age home. Both of them screw with the docs on the payment, and many docs won't take either.
Post #361,148 by Another Scott 7/22/12 12:57:40 PM Reply	This isn't too far off the mark on the views of many in USA. http://www.youtube.c...QTfM&feature=plcp (1:39 video). ;-) Cheers, Scott.

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