Well, the massacre of Sabra and Shatila in 1982 comes to

Post #35,720 by a6l6e6x 4/17/02 12:19:43 AM Reply	Well, the massacre of Sabra and Shatila in 1982 comes to mind, and of course Ariel Sharon, then the "defense" minister, was responsible. Now that he's the prime minister, should I expect less? [link\|http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A16966-2002Mar12\|Last week in Ramallah] Some Israelis were also incensed that troops were writing numbers on some of the prisoners' arms and foreheads, using blue markers, a practice that Arafat likened to the Nazis' treatment of Jews in World War II. Using an SS "How to..." manual? You do have that concentration camp with thousands of "terrorists". The journalists called out to the soldiers to hold their fire, saying there were no gunmen in the hotel. The Israelis insisted there were. A camera belonging to ABC News was struck by Israeli bullets seven times, including once directly in its lens, CNN reported from the hotel. Not to forget the [link\|http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/03/13/News/News.45119.html\|Italian photographer] that was killed. Yep, nothing as bad as witnesses. Sure, both sides are lying to get their point across. But only party one is in control of the events and has a "sanitation corps". Perhaps you were spared the sight of what Jenin looks like now. Looks like a "population control" project of a neo-Nazi barbaric regime. But, I'm waiting for an accounting of missing people. And, I don't hate Israel, only the current government and what it has done to its own people. There are no limits to what it will do to achieve that Greater Israel. Peace would mean giving up that dream and must not occur. Well done, in that goal! All but one other country in the world recognizes this. And, I am deeply ashamed that the US has lost its sense of justice. Israel still has decent and brave people and I wish them well and for Israel to go on as a nation. Happy 54th! Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
Post #35,848 by bluke 4/18/02 3:16:35 AM Reply	Still waiting for all those bodies ... The fact is that there are no mass graves etc. when will you finally admit it. Sabra and Shatilla, as you very well know, was committed by Lebanese Christian Phalangists
Post #35,857 by a6l6e6x 4/18/02 8:33:08 AM Reply	So the IDF did not surround Sabra and Shatilla with tanks? [link\|http://www.arabeuropean.org/Documents/Document0003.html\|Liink.] As to the decision for the entry of the Lebanese militiamen into the Sabra and Chatila camps, it appears from the testimony of Rafael Eitan, Israel's Chief of Staff, before the Israeli Commission of Inquiry that it was taken by him and by Sharon on September 14, 1982. This was followed by meetings between those two military chiefs and the Phalangist commanders to coordinate the operation of the militiamen's entry into the camps. The decision to allow the militiamen's entry into the camps was approved by the Israeli Cabinet on September 16 after it began to be put into execution. Yes, after WW-II the Germans population denied any knowledge of concentration/extermination camps. [link\|http://www.globalpolicy.org/intljustice/general/2001/sab&shat.htm\|Another link.] [link\|http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0ign0\|Kahan Commission], the official Israeli report: The Commission determined that the massacre at Sabra and Shatilla was carried out by a Phalangist unit, acting on its own but its entry was known to Israel. No Israeli was directly responsible for the events which occurred in the camps. But the Commission asserted that Israel had indirect responsibility for the massacre since the I.D.F. held the area, Mr. Begin was found responsible for not exercising greater involvement and awareness in the matter of introducing the Phalangists into the camps. Mr. Sharon was found responsible for ignoring the danger of bloodshed and revenge when he approved the entry of the Phalangists into the camps as well as not taking appropriate measures to prevent bloodshed. Mr. Shamir erred by not taking action after being alerted by communications Minister Zippori. Chief of Staff Eitan did not give the appropriate orders to prevent the massacre. The Commission recommended that the Defense Minister resign, that the Director of Military Intelligence not continue in his post and other senior officers be removed. Your statement absolving Israel is morally bankrupt. Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
Post #35,858 by bluke 4/18/02 9:18:22 AM Reply	Actually the Kahan commission shows the morality of Israel How many other countries would appoint a commission of inquiry which made a very serious investigation with consequences for senior officials. However, the bottom line is that in retrospect it is easy to say that Israel should have seen it coming, but in realtime it is not that simple or easy.
Post #35,899 by a6l6e6x 4/18/02 1:36:54 PM Reply	Re: Actually the Kahan commission shows the morality of Isra I fully agree that the Kahan commission shows that there are moral people in Israel. But, they are no longer in power. Today, either no commission would be formed or the conclusion would totally absolve Israel. Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
Post #35,923 by bluke 4/18/02 5:06:54 PM Reply	And how do you know that ... I guess you know taht the same way you know that Israel massacred all those Palestinians, and has stolem all that Palestinian land. Do you know that a commission has been formed and is investigating the deaths of Israeli-Arabs in riots in October 2000?
Post #35,925 by a6l6e6x 4/18/02 5:12:27 PM Reply	And a year and half later the commission has no report? Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
Post #35,931 by bluke 4/18/02 5:18:17 PM Reply	While the commisiion has issued no formal report yet ... It did notify various parties (including the former Foreign Minister)that they are under investigation and need to present a defense. The commisdion has interviewed alot fo people and has produced a huge amount of documents which need to be reviewed by the defendents.

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