MSFT: settlement would put computer field back 20 years

Post #35,619 by kmself 4/16/02 1:40:44 PM Reply	MSFT: settlement would put computer field back 20 years Let's see... That would be back when the Macintosh and the IBM PC competed head-to-head instead of as David and Goliath. Xenix was "the future of computing", OS/2 was an upcoming strong contender. And nobody but nobody had heard of "Windows", outside of an architectural context. There was a viable ISV industry not based on servitude to Redmond. ...and the hardware capabilities today are 819,200% greater, we've got twenty additional years of UI experience, and pervasive networking. So...why is [link\|http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=581&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20020416/tc_nm/microsoft_dc_152\|this] a bad thing? `-- Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com] [link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|[link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand? Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead. [link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|[link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]]`
Post #35,625 by Brandioch 4/16/02 2:26:38 PM Reply	chuckle. Hmmm, competition between Intel and AMD resulted in the 2Gig + chips we have now. But, competition in the OS field would fragment the industry. But, competition in the chip field, even though you can't run just any chip on just any motherboard now, is a good thing. Strangely enough, Asus can manage different lines of motherboards for different chips. And they're hardware. But the software people wouldn't be able to do so? And I'm not even getting into whether the core OS (as opposed to browser and solitare and such) would even be affected by this.
Post #35,629 by wharris2 4/16/02 2:37:02 PM Reply	What hubris! Remember when Windows 3.0 and 3.1 came out (the first usable versions of Windows)? Did you ever pick up the Petzold Windows programming book, sit down with a compiler, start typing code in, and then sit there in sheer dumb unbelieving shock at what you had to go through to get a "Hello World" program to run? This convoluted twist-your-brain API was advancing the computer field? If this is the type of "advancing" the computer field Microsoft is talking about, we could do with a lot less of it. (And, of course, one problem after that is that once we had this API they pretty much had to stick with it and its descendants, occasionally adding poorly designed layers like MFC on top of it.) I put Petzold down and didn't even try to touch programming Windows until Delphi came out years later. No wonder the first Windows programs were crummy, buggy, crashy, and trashy - I think the first reliable program I ever got for Windows was Quicken. Even today, the only main "innovations" Microsoft is engaged in is finding new and improved ways of locking their customers into their products. Famous last RPG quotes: "I'll just shoot this fireball down the dungeon passageway..."
Post #35,634 by acagle 4/16/02 2:45:32 PM 4/16/02 2:46:44 PM Reply	Oops. Sorry, browser spazzed out. Delete one post if possible. Edited by acagle April 16, 2002, 02:46:44 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #35,635 by acagle 4/16/02 2:46:09 PM Reply	Lessee. . . . . We're already behind by ten years because of Microsoft, so that makes 1992, so twenty years before that would be 1972, and we'd be right at the beginning of the minicomputer revolution. I dunno. Was "reliability" all that bad of a concept? Seems a good place to restart the whole thing.
Post #36,446 by orion 4/24/02 7:30:12 PM 4/24/02 7:41:04 PM Reply	20 years ago today? 1982, before the Macintosh, before Windows, back when Microsoft first started PC-DOS and MS-DOS. Microsoft's [link\|http://gobi.stanford.edu/computer_history/deal.htm\|Deal of the century!] Back just before everyone and their brother cloned IBM's PC and PC/AT, before hard drives where included in most systems. Back when the 8 bit computers just started to get long in the tooth. Back when Commodore and Atari ruled the home computer market, and Apple had the educational, consumer, and hobbist market. Seesh, before Linux even! Make IBM start over with the new contract with Microsoft to only make the OS for IBM and nobody else. IBM goofed up there and created an accidental empire with Microsoft. IBM should have been there, not Microsoft, that is if IBM was smart enough to license PC-DOS to OEMs? *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.* Edited by orion April 24, 2002, 07:41:04 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #36,489 by imric 4/25/02 11:41:44 AM Reply	shudder IBM? In the place MS is? Preserve me. MS is just an offshoot of the evil that is IBM. If they put on the mask of 'good guy' now, you can be sure that they are simply biding thier time... Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #36,490 by imric 4/25/02 11:43:40 AM Reply	LRPDism: Return the relics to the elephants, and Atlantis rises Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #36,688 by orion 4/28/02 12:40:56 AM Reply	Did we trade one evil for another? Would we have IBM in place of Microsoft? Would we have OS/2 XP instead of Windows XP right now? How about DRI, would you want to use GEM XP instead? What if Apple licensed their Macintosh system to Microsoft in 1984 and we had Apple in place of Microsoft? Evil, what Corporations are really noted for being 100% good? It is just about what percentage of evil they all, most Corps are inherently evil they place profit over safety and their employee's rights. Bottom line is how much money they can make and what expenses they can get rid of? *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #36,692 by Steve Lowe 4/28/02 1:39:17 AM Reply	Re: Did we trade one evil for another? ..OS/2 XP instead of Windows XP right now? Both. (and all the others your mentioned. That's the point. And they'd ALL be better. ----- Steve
Post #36,736 by orion 4/28/02 9:58:18 PM 4/28/02 10:00:35 PM Reply	They'd all be better? So if OS/2 XP had 90% marketshare and the rest fighting for the other 10%, you'd be happier than if Microsoft had the 90%? Would you be happier if IBM owned 90% of the market, and used their own browser bundled/intergrated with the latest version of OS/2, sold their own Office Suite, and forced OEMs to pay for installs even if they didn't install OS/2 on each and every system? What makes IBM, Apple, DRI, etc better than Microsoft? If I had my choice, it would be an easier to use Linux with Mozilla installed as an optional part of the Linux install. By buying Microsoft products, each and every one of us that bought a MS product, helped to make Microsoft what it is today. Every MS-Shop, every home user, everyone who uses a MS product helped to create the monster that is now the modern Microsoft. But what if a different company had 90% of the marketshare and abused their monopoly? *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.* Edited by orion April 28, 2002, 10:00:35 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #36,745 by Steve Lowe 4/29/02 12:49:14 AM Reply	Missed point entirely Where did I say anything about any of them having 90% market share? If they were all actually competing, yes they would all be better. Including Microsoft's products. That's why I said all of them. Look at any industry where there is real competition. Products get better and cheaper. ----- Steve
Post #37,001 by orion 4/30/02 7:48:53 PM Reply	Yes it would if they all had franctions of the marketshare but we would have more than one OS as "standard". Write a program for OS/2, and then DR-DOS wouldn't run it. Write a program for Linux, and Plan9 wouldn't run it. Write a MacOS program, and BeOS wouldn't run it. Etc. Best thing to do is crack open that Microsoft API and have other companies clone their own Windows to use that API, or build emulators or whatever to run Windows software. Then everyone can have a piece of the pie. Remember in the early 80's when Compute! and other magazines had source code for programs, and each program had like 6 ports or more? One for each major machine? *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #37,163 by CRConrad 5/2/02 1:36:03 AM Reply	Still missing the fscking point. Norm gibbers on: but we would have more than one OS as "standard. Holy fucking shit goddamitall to Hell, that IS the bloody point!!! For fuck's sake, buy a frigging clue, willya?!? Christian R. Conrad Of course, who am I to point fingers? I'm in the "Information Technology" business, prima facia evidence that there's bats in the bell tower. -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=27764\|Andrew Grygus]

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