Ten year old suicide bomber?

Post #35,610 by marlowe 4/16/02 12:41:53 PM Reply	Ten year old suicide bomber? [link\|http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1002,10431%257E524714,00.html\|Another wild story from Jenin] Excerpt: But results of the Israeli investigation into the deaths of the soldiers lured into the ambush, announced by former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, revealed a potentially startling truth: The soldiers were thought to have been lured into the ambush by a "baby suicide bomber." According to a report in the New York Daily News, Netanyahu, speaking on the "Hannity & Colmes" show on the Fox News Channel, said: "You know how they were killed? A 10-year-old boy was strapped with explosives and sent by [Palestinian leader Yasser] Arafat's goons to explode. This is the kind of monstrosity we're dealing with." According to Netanyahu, when the soldiers spied the boy rummaging around in the ruins of a refugee camp, as an alternative to gunning him down, they chased him into an alley. Once in the alley, the boy, acting in the tradition of a Palestinian suicide bomber, detonated a device that immediately killed three soldiers and sparked a series of explosions that sent a building crashing down on them. Immediately after that, according to Netanyahu's account reported in the Daily News, Palestinian snipers opened fire from a nearby rooftop in the refugee camp. Ten more soldiers were killed and a dozen Israeli civilians were wounded. Natanyahu later backed off about the boy's age, saying he wasn't sure whether he was a "10-year-old or a 14-year-old or a 13-year-old." I say: It's as credible as anything else said to have gone on in Jenin. I think they stole this idea from a PKD story. Was the explosive device a teddy bear? [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Truth is that which is the case. Accept no substitutes. If competence is considered "hubris" then may I and my country always be as "arrogant" as we can possibly manage.
Post #35,612 by boxley 4/16/02 12:45:51 PM Reply	I was watching the show when BeBe was talking He backed off from 10yo real fast when called on it. Later reports indicated that the squad was lured into the ambush by a youngster. I thought that from a military prospective the ambush was well designed and had a willing bomber to suck them in there. Israeli tactics probably changed right there, shoot someone then riddle the body to set off any suspected explosives. If there wasnt any? Shrug, thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #35,642 by 3) 4/16/02 3:24:53 PM Reply	And that's the point, as it has been all along Same thing as sending boys to throw rocks at soldiers. The strategy is to make the other side kill non-combatants on your side. It only works if you are a monster and your enemy isn't. It worked for a long time. The current situation is what happens when it stops working. Or maybe it still is - every Palestinean that gets shot is one less for the Arabs to worry about. And if they don't explode, $25,000 better bottom line on the ol' oil pump. I am not a man, I am a free number.
Post #35,714 by a6l6e6x 4/16/02 10:49:06 PM 4/17/02 1:15:55 AM Reply	So when are the mobile crematoriums deployed? Have to make those Greater Israel deserts bloom with Arab ashes, right? Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962) Edited by a6l6e6x April 17, 2002, 01:15:55 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #35,715 by bluke 4/16/02 10:55:42 PM Reply	You never stop do you There isn't a shred of evidence that any kind of massacre occurred but that doesn't bother you. The Arabs said it so it must be true. You are pathetic in your hatred of Israel.
Post #35,720 by a6l6e6x 4/17/02 12:19:43 AM Reply	Well, the massacre of Sabra and Shatila in 1982 comes to mind, and of course Ariel Sharon, then the "defense" minister, was responsible. Now that he's the prime minister, should I expect less? [link\|http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A16966-2002Mar12\|Last week in Ramallah] Some Israelis were also incensed that troops were writing numbers on some of the prisoners' arms and foreheads, using blue markers, a practice that Arafat likened to the Nazis' treatment of Jews in World War II. Using an SS "How to..." manual? You do have that concentration camp with thousands of "terrorists". The journalists called out to the soldiers to hold their fire, saying there were no gunmen in the hotel. The Israelis insisted there were. A camera belonging to ABC News was struck by Israeli bullets seven times, including once directly in its lens, CNN reported from the hotel. Not to forget the [link\|http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/03/13/News/News.45119.html\|Italian photographer] that was killed. Yep, nothing as bad as witnesses. Sure, both sides are lying to get their point across. But only party one is in control of the events and has a "sanitation corps". Perhaps you were spared the sight of what Jenin looks like now. Looks like a "population control" project of a neo-Nazi barbaric regime. But, I'm waiting for an accounting of missing people. And, I don't hate Israel, only the current government and what it has done to its own people. There are no limits to what it will do to achieve that Greater Israel. Peace would mean giving up that dream and must not occur. Well done, in that goal! All but one other country in the world recognizes this. And, I am deeply ashamed that the US has lost its sense of justice. Israel still has decent and brave people and I wish them well and for Israel to go on as a nation. Happy 54th! Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
Post #35,848 by bluke 4/18/02 3:16:35 AM Reply	Still waiting for all those bodies ... The fact is that there are no mass graves etc. when will you finally admit it. Sabra and Shatilla, as you very well know, was committed by Lebanese Christian Phalangists
Post #35,857 by a6l6e6x 4/18/02 8:33:08 AM Reply	So the IDF did not surround Sabra and Shatilla with tanks? [link\|http://www.arabeuropean.org/Documents/Document0003.html\|Liink.] As to the decision for the entry of the Lebanese militiamen into the Sabra and Chatila camps, it appears from the testimony of Rafael Eitan, Israel's Chief of Staff, before the Israeli Commission of Inquiry that it was taken by him and by Sharon on September 14, 1982. This was followed by meetings between those two military chiefs and the Phalangist commanders to coordinate the operation of the militiamen's entry into the camps. The decision to allow the militiamen's entry into the camps was approved by the Israeli Cabinet on September 16 after it began to be put into execution. Yes, after WW-II the Germans population denied any knowledge of concentration/extermination camps. [link\|http://www.globalpolicy.org/intljustice/general/2001/sab&shat.htm\|Another link.] [link\|http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0ign0\|Kahan Commission], the official Israeli report: The Commission determined that the massacre at Sabra and Shatilla was carried out by a Phalangist unit, acting on its own but its entry was known to Israel. No Israeli was directly responsible for the events which occurred in the camps. But the Commission asserted that Israel had indirect responsibility for the massacre since the I.D.F. held the area, Mr. Begin was found responsible for not exercising greater involvement and awareness in the matter of introducing the Phalangists into the camps. Mr. Sharon was found responsible for ignoring the danger of bloodshed and revenge when he approved the entry of the Phalangists into the camps as well as not taking appropriate measures to prevent bloodshed. Mr. Shamir erred by not taking action after being alerted by communications Minister Zippori. Chief of Staff Eitan did not give the appropriate orders to prevent the massacre. The Commission recommended that the Defense Minister resign, that the Director of Military Intelligence not continue in his post and other senior officers be removed. Your statement absolving Israel is morally bankrupt. Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
Post #35,858 by bluke 4/18/02 9:18:22 AM Reply	Actually the Kahan commission shows the morality of Israel How many other countries would appoint a commission of inquiry which made a very serious investigation with consequences for senior officials. However, the bottom line is that in retrospect it is easy to say that Israel should have seen it coming, but in realtime it is not that simple or easy.
Post #35,899 by a6l6e6x 4/18/02 1:36:54 PM Reply	Re: Actually the Kahan commission shows the morality of Isra I fully agree that the Kahan commission shows that there are moral people in Israel. But, they are no longer in power. Today, either no commission would be formed or the conclusion would totally absolve Israel. Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
Post #35,923 by bluke 4/18/02 5:06:54 PM Reply	And how do you know that ... I guess you know taht the same way you know that Israel massacred all those Palestinians, and has stolem all that Palestinian land. Do you know that a commission has been formed and is investigating the deaths of Israeli-Arabs in riots in October 2000?
Post #35,925 by a6l6e6x 4/18/02 5:12:27 PM Reply	And a year and half later the commission has no report? Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
Post #35,931 by bluke 4/18/02 5:18:17 PM Reply	While the commisiion has issued no formal report yet ... It did notify various parties (including the former Foreign Minister)that they are under investigation and need to present a defense. The commisdion has interviewed alot fo people and has produced a huge amount of documents which need to be reviewed by the defendents.
Post #35,820 by 3) 4/17/02 8:01:27 PM Reply	Oh, I forgot WWII was started by Jews suicide-bombing Nazi pizza parlors. Yeah. Right. I am not a man, I am a free number.
Post #35,838 by Ashton 4/17/02 11:35:53 PM Reply	Er, Wienerschnitzel Parlors IIRC..
Post #35,855 by a6l6e6x 4/18/02 7:41:44 AM Reply	So you never heard of the Warsaw uprising? Brutal oppression is tough to accept. And, some will resist in any way they can. The Palestinian Arabs have had 35 years of brutal oppression. What's this about starting a war, anyway? Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
Post #35,859 by bluke 4/18/02 9:20:23 AM Reply	The Jews in the Warsaw ghetto ... never dreamed about killing innocent civilians with suicide bombs.
Post #35,874 by inthane-chan 4/18/02 10:49:42 AM Reply	I wonder what they might have done... ...had they suffered under Nazi rule for 35 years. From the Jews I know, they probably wouldn't resort to suicide bombing, but you never know... "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #35,876 by boxley 4/18/02 10:55:37 AM Reply	ROLF!!!! After 10 they would be dead! The point of the nazis was to make sure no Jews were alive on this earth. The point of the Israeli/Pals is who gets to enjoy the dirt. thanx, Bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #35,920 by inthane-chan 4/18/02 4:34:06 PM Reply	Yeah, I know that... And I know that the reason for the Warsaw Ghetto uprising was because the Germans tried to "liquidate" the camp. Still, from the Jewish folk I have known, my feeling is that they'd just gripe about it a lot, and not actually do anything. :) Guess all the ones with gumption went to Israel, for better or worse... "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #35,935 by Ashton 4/18/02 5:29:04 PM Reply	As to that 'gumption'.. A common dis for the group, after the Holocaust became known. Thing is, that Ministry of Propaganda was the exact prototype for M$ Marketing (and I still maintain - Billy is G\ufffdbbels' bastard reincarnation). There were movies of er 'resettlement villages', showing the children at play, the adults in the library.. fields of vegetables being tended. All orchestrated with the actors under penalty of instatnt death. Remember: never before had some State entity set about the methodical and TOTAL* ahhihilation of an entire homo sap group.* Who would have suspected.. the actual deetination of the "resettlement trains" - BEFORE ??? As with 9/11 - never before had a passenger airliner been deemed a 'weapon'... 20/20 is Sooo convenient a judgment pulpit. So most went along, until reports confirmed the unThinkable was the fact. Many (dunno #s anymore..),like my honorary Jewish Grandmother\ufffd Trude.. left Germany early - as the books began to be burnt and the rhetoric resembled a Montana Black Helicopter Prevention meeting. Later on.. that became near-impossible, and surrounding countries - like The Swiss for an odious example - collaborated with the Nazis in suppressing escape; returning escapees virtually and also in fact. Tell me how easily You could get your act together, find transport (despite a plethora of 'permits', "taxes" on anything you might own, really RED tape): and leave your present locale for another country ... say, over a period of a few days or a week ? And.. would you ? I suppose simply, that the ratio of bravery/cowardice among any group is: the same Gaussian. I don't need to 'suspect' that - family and other considerations.. keep folks anchored long after they have become apprehensive. Hell, some at IWE, offered work in another area -- cite the very same reasons for remaining in a local desert; remaining with Nazi-trained employers VS A Chance to do Better. (or.. just to live?) And they aren't exterminating slow-coders. Yet. Rest case. Ashton
Post #35,941 by inthane-chan 4/18/02 6:45:59 PM Reply	Tweeeeeet! Godwin, 15 yard penalty! :) Naw, you got it nailed pretty well. Really, when you come down to it, we're just a higher class of cattle. "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #35,947 by Ashton 4/18/02 7:31:47 PM Reply	Guess you can grok too - Why it is that some of us who Heard It almost-Live (even as kids.. one remembers the inflections in voices, esp. from Uniformed voices in newsreels) -- note a similarity of the Ashcroftian intellectual level of speech and.. the mechanisms of all propaganda: talk about fuzzy-warm / bloody-cold stuff as alternatives + 'We' shall keep you safe.. if you just go along with this little absurdity today. Of course he isn't a pukka Nazi (!) yet his dogma is worn on his sleeve. As with all True Believers, he is Certain that his POV is the Right one for all. Clearly this is his mindset - after all, his IS the One True God. And Nazism was.. The One True Way for the Aryan Master Race to er "manage the sheep". What were "we in the West" Thinking Of.. as we watched the F\ufffdehrer methodically following the plot-line of Mein Kampff -- year after year ??? (I know that I haven't the foggiest idea yet - of how so many missed so Much for so long. Why should we expect to be more astute about creeping gradualism.. two generations later?) Ashton it sure is fascinating to watch, though.. (though automatic Jew-hatred is too familiar to be even moderately interesting - as with a herpes vulgaris sore in corner of mouth, that you've had for a week)
Post #35,926 by bluke 4/18/02 5:13:08 PM Reply	2 answers 1. They would have been long gone well before 35 years (not multiplying from 800,000 to 3.5 million as the Palestinians have) 2. Just look at how the Jews suffered under the Tsar's in Russia in the 1800's and their responses: some left to either the US or Israel, some became COmmunist type radicals, the majority suffered in silence
Post #35,927 by marlowe 4/18/02 5:13:43 PM Reply	Moral equivalence is impossible to accept. You are seriously out of touch with reality. You're still this side of Holocaust denial, but just barely. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Truth is that which is the case. Accept no substitutes. If competence is considered "hubris" then may I and my country always be as "arrogant" as we can possibly manage.
Post #35,937 by a6l6e6x 4/18/02 5:40:06 PM Reply	Re: Moral equivalence is impossible to accept. Hey Marlowe, you are an asshole! I spent time in Nazi concentration camp when they were a going operation. My parents were slave laborers in Nazi Germany. I lost an infant brother at that time. The Holocaust was not entirely just for the Jews, you know. I was a child, but I know what it is to be cold and hungry, and I know what barbarism and oppression are first hand. Denying the Holocaust is the very last thing I would do. Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)

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