Post #35,597
4/16/02 11:42:37 AM
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Putting uppity non-Muslims in their place
[link|http://www.townhall.com/columnists/marvinolasky/mo20020416.shtml|The way it is when they're in charge]
Excerpt:
Ye'Or points out that for orthodox Muslims, the world is divided into the dar al-Harb, land controlled by non-Muslims that forms the "territory of war," and the dar al-Islam, the land where Islamic law prevails. Historically, a peace is not a peace -- and a time of peace longer than a decade is occasion not for relaxation but for feeling inadequate and fidgety. Infidels should never be allowed to rest on their laurels, famed 14th century Muslim jurist Ibn Taymiyya asserted, for any land they possess is held illegitimately.
This does not mean that Jews and Christians living in Muslim-ruled lands were killed or imprisoned. They regularly received dhimmi status, which afforded them temporary protection from some abuses, but no permanent status.
Dhimmis in Muslim countries over the centuries typically had to pay discriminatory taxes and acknowledge publicly their status as second-class citizens. They were on the hook for additional sums and had to supply forced labor on demand. They were ineligible for any public office and without right even to testify in court.
Dhimmis were not allowed to possess weapons, marry Muslim women, meet with others on the streets, or ride horses or camels (the two "noble animals"). Dhimmis had to wear special clothes, walk with eyes lowered and accept being pushed aside by Muslims. Dhimmis had to have low doors on their houses, with no lights on the doors.
Some particular aspects varied from age to age and region to region. In the 9th century, Jews in some Muslim areas had to wear on their shoulders a patch of white cloth that bore the image of an ape; Christians, since they ate pork, wore a pig image. In 11th century Seville, Jews were not to be met with the greeting, "Peace be unto you," because they were not supposed to have any peace.
Other edicts affected not just finances but self-respect. A Cairo rule in 1761 was that "no Jew or Christian may appear on horseback. They ride only asses ... " In Persia in 1890, Jewish women had to "expose their faces in public (like prostitutes). ... Every Jew is obliged to wear a piece of red cloth on his chest. A Jew must never overtake a Muslim on a public street. ... If a Muslim insults a Jew, the latter must drop his head and remain silent. ... The Jew cannot put on his coat; he must be satisfied to carry it rolled under his arm. ... It is forbidden for Jews to leave the town or enjoy the fresh air of the countryside. ... Jews must not consume good fruit."
I say:
This explains a lot. If they were so insecure when they were in charge, that they had to bully non-Muslims in this way, it's no surprise they respond to no longer being in charge by throwing a huge tantrum. It's bad enough they can't be graceful losers. Turns out they're sore winners too.
(Yes, the Jews once suffered humiliations and persecutions in Christendom as well. But the West got over all that. At least the part that wasn't Aryan mystic in religion. We found enough of a basis of self esteem that we didn't have to persecute our betters. In the end, we embraced them, learned from them, and made one a PM of England. By contrast, the Muslim world has yet to get over all that. In fact, outside of Turkey, they're not even close.)
That business about the World Trade Center? A temper tantrum on a grand scale. Those suicide bombers? Just a more elaborate variation on holding your breath and turning blue.
We in the dar al-Harb are damned if we do and damned if we don't. If we play by their rules, we're not allowed to win, because it's against the rules for us to win. And we have to play, because they won't leave us alone. It's against the rules for us to be left alone. So let's play by our rules, and play to win. If we spank them long enough and hard enough, we might just be able to bring about an attitude change. Or failing that, they'll all hold their breath, pass out, and die of anoxia.
What the Muslim world ultimately needs is some basis for legitimate self esteem, so they won't feel the need to put us in, um, *their* place. But they're never going to have that until they change their whole approach to dealing with the outside world. It's a chicken-and-egg problem. So let's forcibly change their attitude and see what develops. It's in the best interests of both sides.
No, all that inventing algebra and preserving Aristotle stuff won't do. It was too long ago. Bringing that up just reminds them of how far they've fallen, before they're ready to accept the blame for having fallen. They need to accomplish something positive *now*. And right now they're not even ready to try.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Truth is that which is the case. Accept no substitutes. If competence is considered "hubris" then may I and my country always be as "arrogant" as we can possibly manage.
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Post #35,609
4/16/02 12:40:21 PM
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The word is "history".
Ye'Or points out that for orthodox Muslims, the world is divided into the dar al-Harb, land controlled by non-Muslims that forms the "territory of war," and the dar al-Islam, the land where Islamic law prevails. So, that would mean that the US and Canada and South America and Europe and Asia and Australia are all "dar al-Harb". Okay. Infidels should never be allowed to rest on their laurels, famed 14th century Muslim jurist Ibn Taymiyya asserted, for any land they possess is held illegitimately. And famed 20th century European leader Adolf Hitler said........ Who gives a fuck WHAT some long dead idiot said? The fact of the matter is that the orthodox Muslims have NOT invaded the US or Canada or South America or Europe or Asia or Australia in this lifetime. Deal with it. Your militaristic fantasies are beyond ignorant. They can believe whatever they want. They are NOT taking any "illegitimately" held land from ANYONE. From Marlowe: This explains a lot. If they were so insecure when they were in charge, that they had to bully non-Muslims in this way, it's no surprise they respond to no longer being in charge by throwing a huge tantrum. Hmmmmmm, seems that they'd have to go pretty far to "bully non-Muslims". Well, at least as far as >WE< had to go on the Crusades. Oh, you don't REMEMBER that little bit of HISTORY, do you? Something about "holy lands held by infidels"? Something about it being our duty to retake them? Why don't you do a little bit of research and find out WHO attacked WHOM and when and when the LAST time whomever invaded any place they hadn't already owned was. No, you won't do that. You'd rather hide behind your militaristic jingo and your "bad Arab" fantasies so you can justify killing the sub-humans "over there". Face it. Your rhetoric is no different than their's. If you were born in Iran, you'd be shouting about the "great Satan" and dancing in the street after the WTC attack. Jingo'ism is Jingo'ism. Small minded bigotry is Small minded bigotry. The only difference is that you were born over here and they were born over there.
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Post #35,615
4/16/02 1:19:13 PM
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Which just supports my contention . . .
. . that Islam, Judaism and Christianity should all three be banned as violent, intollerent and guilty of copious crimes against humanity - or just ban monotheism entirely as worthless crap - it's just an excuse to declare everyone else subhuman so you can kill them.
Of course, then "right thinkng" folks would have go through all the trouble of coming up with some other excuse to slaughter their neighbors.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #35,643
4/16/02 3:31:18 PM
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The problem is numero-theism
Assigning a number to divinity. Doesn't matter if it's one like the monotheists think, two like the Manicheists, zero like the atheists, or even three as most of us Catholics almost-rightly say.
I Am isn't a number, isn't even countable.
I am not a man, I am a free number.
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Post #35,648
4/16/02 3:48:16 PM
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Well, if you're gonna be . .
. . a freak'n Kabalist about it . .
As any good Pagan** knows, Nothing & Everything (0 and Infinity) are just different ways of expressing the same concept (or number for the mathematically inclined). Anything else is just a sub expression of nothing - a construct of perception - dividing out a piece of nothing and contemplating it's properties as if it were a distinct entity.
"Nothing divided itself into everything in order to know itself."
** There are also a lot of "bad Pagans" who just run an imitation of Christianity with multiple gods/goddesses instead of just three (or 4 if you count Mary (Isis)).
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #35,645
4/16/02 3:38:38 PM
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Hindus are going at it pretty good right now in India
Couple of massacres going on over a temple/mosque problem. Has to do with the theory if the other guy built it the dirt must be spiritual, so knowck down his stuff and put up ours. thanx, bill
TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
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Post #35,651
4/16/02 3:55:57 PM
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They are resisting the incursion of . .
. . a foreign, monotheistic (thus naturally exclusive and violent) religion that has every intention of killing them if it can get away with it. A zillion cults get along pretty well there so long as nobody claims to "serve the one and only" and tries to kill everyone else (or convert by force as is being done in Africa right now).
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #35,683
4/16/02 6:29:53 PM
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We need a few more supporting that contention, methinks.
Believe there is ample evidence that all the -isms, taken together - acoount for near-100% of the rationalizations for the warisgoodbizness; investyourson periodic massacres for $, for ego - for just plain Goodness.
Trouble is: the fear of the Mystery of Why Life Is* (or for that matter: why *Anything* Is) won't go away. Substituting some idea of Holy-Science (say) proves not nearly as attractive an antidote to things thatgoBump inthe night as -- all those refined fantasies of bearded men -- alternatively and occasionally "kindly/loving" ... but always Ruling With That Iron Fist\ufffd. What do you call folks who Love Punishment (even for - just being born) ??
* never ... Never! ask 'why?' !! y'know?
Now if there *is* some genetic predisposition in homo-sap, towards masochism (?) Then we just may lack the overall capacity to kick the fantasy habit, accept that Life is a pretty Wonderful Thing\ufffd (compared with.. what?) and thus finally grow into an adult species, and cease being Righteous - as daily expression of our Death Wish.
In which case, all the excrescenses and slogans and flags shall continue for the duration to be - Will Shakespeare's compact summation: all that,
..sound and fury, signifying Nothing.
(where.. ignorant armies clash by night.)
SO.... what's on Tee Vee?
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Post #35,620
4/16/02 2:01:02 PM
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Re: Putting uppity non-Muslims in their place
(Yes, the Jews once suffered humiliations and persecutions in Christendom as well. But the West got over all that. At least the part that wasn't Aryan mystic in religion. We found enough of a basis of self esteem that we didn't have to persecute our betters. You paint the West with an overly kind brush. Even before Hitler set about trying to systematically exterminate them, Jews were largely isolated in their ghettos in Europe and otherwise discriminated against in various ways. One would hope that things are much better today, but to say the West "got over it" is a great oversimplification.
Famous last RPG quotes: "I'll just shoot this fireball down the dungeon passageway..."
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Post #35,713
4/16/02 10:42:45 PM
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And that would explain...
why there is a [link|http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1932000/1932471.stm|synagogue in Tunisia], in the news lately, a Muslim country since the 7th century. Ghriba, whose foundations are said to date from 586 BC, is one of Africa's oldest synagogues and is still functioning. Place of pilgrimage for Sephardic Jews, second only to Jerusalem's Western Wall Houses unique collection of Torahs. Keep your hate mongering to yourself.
Alex
"Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
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