Post #352,521
12/28/11 7:38:44 PM
12/28/11 8:57:54 PM
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Shouldn't be. (Some things to try inside)
That involves the USB stack as well. Drook's card is on the PCI bus.
There are no hard/fast diagnostics as so much depends on the hardware. That said, grab a root console and try the following:
lspci -v
Check the output for evidence of the network cards. There should be two (assuming you have a wired port as well.) The output will also list the driver in use. If you are missing one, then the card fell off the bus and only a reboot will bring it back. I've seen this happen occasionally but repeat occurrences point at a faulty card.
Assuming the wireless card shows up, try
iwlist wlan0 scan
You may have to change wlan0 to whatever your laptop normally uses as the WiFi interface. If needed, the magic hides in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules unless Canonical had some fun.
If you get a complaint saying the network is down, run ifconfig wlan0 up, then run the scan command again.
You should see a list of all networks in the neighborhood regardless of encryption. Errors or "no results" here can mean the card is off, or there is a problem with the driver.
rfkill list
Shows the current blocked/unblocked status of all NICs. If blocked, try using the rfkill unblock ... incantation. If that doesn't release the block, then we're back to rebooting. Other than the keyboard toggle and rfkill, I don't know of other means to block the radio. If it keeps flipping to block state then it may be the card itself again.
Assuming everything produced something usable up to this point, try
wpa_supplicant -d -D wext -c /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf -i wlan0
This starts the security negotiation with the AP. -dd can be used for even more output.
Edited by scoenye
Dec. 28, 2011, 08:57:54 PM EST
Shouldn't be.
That involves the USB stack as well. Drook's card is on the PCI bus.
There are no hard/fast diagnostics as so much depends on the hardware. That said, grab a root console and try the following:
lspci -v
Check the output for evidence of the network cards. There should be two (assuming you have a wired port as well.) The output will also list the driver in use. If you are missing one, then the card fell off the bus and only a reboot will bring it back. I've seen this happen occasionally but repeat occurrences point at a faulty card.
Assuming the wireless card shows up, try
iwlist wlan0 scan
You may have to change wlan0 to whatever your laptop normally uses as the WiFi interface. If needed, the magic hides in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules unless Canonical had some fun.
If you get a complaint saying the network is down, run ifconfig wlan0 up, then run the scan command again.
You should see a list of all networks in the neighborhood regardless of encryption. Errors or "no results" here can mean the card is off, or there is a problem with the driver.
rfkill list
Shows the current blocked/unblocked status of all NICs. If blocked, try using the rfkill unblock ... incantation. If that doesn't release the block, then we're back to rebooting. Other than the keyboard toggle and rfkill, I don't know of other means to block the radio. If it keeps flipping to block state then it may be the card itself again.
Assuming everything produced something usable up to this point, try
wpa_supplicant -d -D wext -c /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf -i wlan0
This starts the security negotiation with the AP. -dd can be used for even more output.
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Post #352,523
12/28/11 8:46:17 PM
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Thanks for the correction.
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Post #352,524
12/28/11 9:36:32 PM
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I hate wireless...
Its such a pain in the butt!
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Post #352,526
12/28/11 9:44:45 PM
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What I tell my clients is:
"Wherever you can use wire, use wire. Where you just can't use wire, use wireless."
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Post #352,527
12/28/11 11:10:02 PM
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Yep. Including the peripherals.
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Post #352,528
12/29/11 1:18:27 AM
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Even with Apple hardware!
I have an Apple Airport Extreme with Wireless.
I cannot tell you how much of a pain it is to even hook up Apple Hardware to it.
Though my Android Phone see's it just fine and connects and uses it perfectly, my daughter's Apple Mac Book Pro, flipping between home and school (school is Windows based kinda stuff) just wreaks havoc for the poor thing. Even with Lion on it.
But, most of the time, once you whaap it a few times it realizes its talking to an Apple router again and magically works.
Now my IBM T61 with Debian Sid on it, has no problems what so ever... I'm using NetworkManager for all my connections (Wireless, Wired, Broadband, CDMA, and VPN over those). It works just fine.
Of course, that is me... not someone else.
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Post #352,538
12/29/11 2:59:30 PM
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Well ...
I grabbed the USB wifi dongle off one of the other computers. That's what's connected now. (Using my coummunity's free wifi, which I never successfully connected to with the built-in wireless.)
I had to modify the connection info for my own wireless to tell the laptop not to auto-connect to it, because the built-in kept seeing it and trying to connect, kicking the other one off.
I've got security disabled on my router, so does one neighbor (who I sometimes leech off of to diagnose issues with mine) and the free community system.
When I allowed auto-connect to my router, and tail/follow syslog, it showed constant attempts to re-grab a previous IP via DHCP from my router, where negotiation kept failing.
This is frustrating as hell, and I'm just about to copy my home directory somewhere and blow this away with a clean install. That's such a Windows thing to do, but I'm running out of ideas.
--
Drew
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Post #352,539
12/29/11 3:15:58 PM
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Does the problem go away with static IPs?
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Post #352,546
12/29/11 6:58:01 PM
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DHCP is probably a red herring
Each step on the way to building a connection has a timeout. Eventually, the system will get past the failed association and start up the DHCP client. That one does not realize the laptop is not connected and will repeatedly shout in the void until it too gets tired.
However, if you see DHCPOFFER messages come in then there is an association and the problem is with a DHCP component. In that case, follow Scott's suggestion and see what happens with a static IP.
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Post #352,547
12/29/11 7:17:14 PM
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Nope, no DHCPOFFER
Going to try a static IP on the local router, see if that works. It still bugs me that I can't even see it from here, but I'm picking up multiple other networks.
Oh, first I'm going to try a bootable CD and see what happens there.
--
Drew
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Post #352,548
12/29/11 8:42:23 PM
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Static IP must be on the laptop
If you assign it on the router, it still needs DHCP to work to get to the laptop. Pick one outside the DHCP range of the router, but inside the subnet. (E.g. if the DHCP range is 192.168.1.10-100 with netmask 255.255.255.0, pick 192.168.1.101)
On network manager IP Address tab, set the method to manual and enter the IP address, netmask and the router's IP address.
Given you say the laptop sees other networks, what does 'iwlist wlan0 scan' show for yours?
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Post #352,549
12/29/11 9:31:42 PM
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Doesn't even show up on the scan
Going to go power cycle the router and see what happens.
--
Drew
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Post #352,550
12/29/11 10:16:30 PM
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Did you see other networks in the area?
If not and you know there should be then something is off on the laptop. Given it used to work, I'd say the Wifi card is failing or something came loose. The card is normally behind a panel with FCC and international cert stamps underneath the machine. It has two antenna wires and plugs in a mini PCI connector. My next step would be to make sure all contacts are good. (I've seen one where an antenna connector was crushed at the factory. Eventually, it dislodged.)
If networks did show up then the card and wifi driver module are working properly. It gets trickier from here as it should be able to connect to an unprotected network.
Is anything else able to connect to your router (protected or not)?
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Post #352,551
12/29/11 10:28:58 PM
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Cycled the router and it connects now
I suspect the router is getting flaky. I have to power cycle it ever couple of days for the Wii to reconnect to it. The laptop never had a problem until the last couple of days. Will see if it continues the next couple of days and write it off as a lost week.
--
Drew
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Post #352,552
12/29/11 11:31:04 PM
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Glad that's sorted...
Unfortunately, the current crop of wireless routers out there is downright scary. I've had the best of luck so far with the older Linksys WRT54 chassis reprogrammed with DD-WRT firmware. Proxim APs are good out of the box but are pricey.
I wouldn't touch Cisco's current SOHO line with a 10' pole (we have a dozen WAP200 units and some 8 port POE switches at work. Even under light duty, the WAP200 only last a few days needing a reboot, and the switches require IE for configuration.)
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Post #352,569
12/30/11 3:21:08 PM
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Been thinking about flashing this one
Hmm ... seems this one (Linksys BEFW11S4) doesn't have a third-party firmware available, and I've got the latest official one from Cisco/Linksys. Guess I'll wait until I switch to cable internet and get a modem/router then.
--
Drew
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Post #352,571
12/30/11 4:19:14 PM
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Stay away from Cisco's SOHO stuff...
Even a lot of enterprise stuff... total crap.
I've been dealing with a lot of friends lately with Wireless gear that just dies.
It all turns out to be Cisco crap. Or Linksys (owned by Cisco) stuff.
I mean they are paying a couple hundred dollars and then they are charging $70 for support per hour to fix something they can't... and end up charging them to tell people its broken.
A lot of Wireless antenna and transmitters are badly tuned to each other, the transmitter then blows itself up or goes all whacky and its power factor efficiency goes to the sub 5% arena... meaning you have to be 3 or less feet from it to get any signal.
Just stay away from it. They last stuff I used was the WRTG54S and even that was flaky, it was still a good linksys design, but re-designed by Cisco and cheapened up to the point it had less RAM and processor that its previous incarnation.
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Post #352,573
12/30/11 4:36:45 PM
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Forgot to include the quote I found
Lots of people saying the BEFW11S4 needs to be power cycled every couple of days. One guy even put his on a Chirstmas light timer so it would power cycle every day in the middle of the night. I might do that myself.
--
Drew
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Post #352,576
12/30/11 5:50:47 PM
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People need to be more active in returning crap.
"I'd like to return this, please."
"But you bought this two months ago."
"And it's died. I'd like a refund please."
...
Wade.
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Post #352,593
12/31/11 8:20:56 AM
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There have been a lot of changes.
In 2000, all the Cisco wireless stuff was based on Aironet, which they acquired. At that time, Cisco was still making their own chip sets and they had a pretty classy product. There was some degradation in converting the access points to IOS but it was still pretty good. There was an A radio they added that was made by an operation they acquired in Australia, which never really worked out well, but it worked. When the G radios came out, they outsourced the chip set to Atheros (never did get the source code for the drivers), and things started going down hill. They also started making more of their chips in China. Cisco started regarding the wireless stuff as a commodity and there was a lot of talk about disbanding the client group entirely. Most of the code was moved to Bangalore for testing and maintenance. Later still they phased out the autonomous access points for centrally controlled AP's which were produced by an acquisition on the east coast. The client group was back in favor again but it was split between the Ohio group, east coast group, and Bangalore. A few years ago the east coast operation was reduced by over half and the Ohio group by a third. Last November, 2 more of the Ohio client group were "early retired". That leaves 5.
It's safe to say that Cisco has changed for the worse. I'm sorry to see it go.
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Post #352,604
12/31/11 1:08:00 PM
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Ripe market for "Apple-fying"
With more people getting TVs with wireless built in, plus all the portables we're carrying, it would be really nice to have a single device you could plug in wherever the wire happens to come into your house, with enough range and a simple interface to easily connect all your devices and only your devices.
--
Drew
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Post #352,606
12/31/11 2:09:10 PM
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I'd agree with that.
The client team was, for a while, working on a subset of that idea, but for the enterprise market. The project went by the wayside. One of Cisco's main problems is that their idea of innovation is to find a company doing something they like, and buy it. That adds another layer of new executives who immediately start empire building. All priorities are shuffled.
There is no point in taking a long view because there will be another power shift in a year and a half to two years. Anything that can not go from scratch to making a LOT of money in that time is not particularly viable.
If some other company already had such a product under development, Cisco would probably be interested in buying it. Then all the execs would piss in the soup to give it the corporate flavor and we'd be back to the original topic.
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Post #352,620
1/1/12 12:00:07 AM
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WiFi protected setup?
http://www.theregist...fi_not_protected/
Wi-Fi Protected Setup (WPS) is used to secure access to wireless networks and requires each router to have a unique eight-digit PIN.
the protocol used by Wi-Fi Protected Setup reports back after the first four digits have been entered, and indicates if they are right, which means they can be attacked separately. The last of the eight digits is just a checksum, so having got the first four the attacker only then has to try another 1,000 combinations (identifying the other three digits) and the entire PIN is known.
Oops...
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Post #352,628
1/1/12 1:50:40 AM
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That's worse than WEP.
And I still use WEP because I had one device that only did WEP. And I couldn't be arsed changing it.
(Besides, I have MAC control on the firewall, so if some neighbour guesses my key and gets on, he's still going nowhere. :-)
Wade.
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