Well, I never thought peace in Central America was possible

Post #35,079 by 3) 4/11/02 1:48:09 AM Reply	Well, I never thought peace in Central America was possible Just to mention one of many stranger things that have happened. (By the way - if Nicaraguans had done 9/11, I'd say we had it coming. We didn't.) What happened in CA was that the money stopped flowing because the USSR stopped supplying one side and we stopped supplying the other, and suddenly war wasn't profitable anymore. And that's despite a history that makes the Middle East look like an amiable chess match. Russia and the US are no longer at war, because one side ran out of money. The basic situation, as I see it, is that the Palestineans are convenient pawns (well, not quite pawns, if they were pawns they would be more valued and have more influence on their own destiny) for the Arabs. Without the Arabs backing them while refusing to accept them, they would have accepted one of the many Israeli offers, and enough of them would have moved on to allow Israel to bring the rest in without becoming a minority. As the Salvedoreans and Soviets discovered, bombs are not cheap. Real refugees don't fight prolonged wars, they can't afford the expense. I am not a man, I am a free number.
Post #35,087 by wharris2 4/11/02 6:45:07 AM Reply	Amiable chess match? C'mon, the hatred between Palestine arabs and the israeli jews is far beyond any hatred or conflict between pro-or-con governments in Central America. You never saw suicide bombings in Central America (at least I didn't); it seemed to be (for want of a better term) "ordinary" warfare. Atrocities on either side, yes, but on the order of suicide bombing? No. Famous last RPG quotes: "I'll just shoot this fireball down the dungeon passageway..."
Post #35,118 by 3) 4/11/02 12:11:06 PM Reply	Well, different No, suicide attacks weren't common in CA, but you don't, on the other hand, see a lot of torture in the ME and there isn't, as far as I know, an accepted language of mutilation and method of killing. The CA situation, although it wasn't well reported in the civilized world, had racial and religious elements that went back several centuries, besides the political and economic issues. Frankly, I don't see the suicide bombings as all that good an indication of depth of hatred. I think it is more a matter of tactics. In every war, there are people willing to die for the mission. Most of the time, their commanders would rather have them available for the next mission. I am not a man, I am a free number.
Post #35,123 by marlowe 4/11/02 12:46:20 PM Reply	Just a matter of tactics? You can't have tactics, in the sense that you speak of tactics, without pawns. And you can't use pawns if they won't do what you want. If the Palestinians didn't have such an insane hatred that they'd be willing to kill themsleves for the privilege of killing others, then this particular tactic wouldn't be an option. This isn't chess. Not all pawns are equal. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Truth is that which is the case. Accept no substitutes. If competence is considered "hubris" then may I and my country always be as "arrogant" as we can possibly manage.
Post #35,197 by 3) 4/11/02 7:27:50 PM Reply	Not saying it isn't fueled by insane hatred Just that I don't accept the premise that suicide bombing demonstrates an exceptional level of insane hatred. Insane hatred is in pretty good supply, and I'm saying that it usualy doesn't result in suicide bombing for mostly tactical reasons. Plenty of the combatants in the CA wars (for example) went into situations where the odds of survival were far lower than the average suicide attempt. Partly, I'm denying the bombers the respect that you give them: I say that they have not demonstrated exceptional depth of passion. I am not a man, I am a free number.
Post #35,199 by Ashton 4/11/02 7:45:07 PM Reply	Fruitful angle.. In many ways there is absence of 'passion' - it's a mercantile contract by the time of pressing the button: You do this / You get the virgins and your pic on local Tee Vee. Parents get the $25K. Similarly.. a drug-induced euphoria may be more akin to the pre-button state (mentioned a few times by ex-wannabe bombers who fizzled). Passion however, requires that one is in possession of faculties (!) aware of the odds, afraid.. yet willing to act. That I believe is what we usually call 'bravery'. Hell.. Every fanatic has that tired old courageofhisconvictions. Yawn
Post #35,117 by a6l6e6x 4/11/02 12:06:12 PM Reply	Re: money flow. The US has given Israel 90 BILLION dollars over the years. Way past time to stop that flow. Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)

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