Post #347,229
9/2/11 9:15:15 PM
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From the outside looking in.
I have never smoked (anything) and don't have relatives or friends with drug problems that I'm involved with. But I have long had interest in documenataries about society and that includes drugs.
Nicotine itself is not harmful and there is debate about if it's even addictive. But the easiest delivery system into the human body is smoking it and that does bring a lot of other chemicals (especially in cigarettes) most of which are harmful and some are addictive. THC is likewise a chemical unique. Heroin, Cocaine, MDMA, etc etc are deadly and addictive. This has been proven again and again. Marijuana is a different beast. From what research I have seen, it could only be considered a "gateway" drug only from social factors. That is, some of the structures in place to acquire it are (or were) the same as for other drugs. Or if and when even they really are different, people seeking "something else" don't know how to tell them apart.
Alcohol is arguably as dangerous as heroin. But it's legal? I think this is a quirk of history. Society has developed, grown, developed, progressed and been changed by the inclusion of alcohol. As a culture, we know what it does. A society without alcohol is almost impossible to imagine.
But marijuana is an outsider. It just hasn't had the same stage presence in the theatre of history as alcohol. As a culture we don't know what it does. Medically, I believe it should be safe to legalise its use; it is clearly beneficial to a substantial subset. Culturally, I'm not so sure. Just as there will always be idiots who get behing the wheel of a car when they're more than three sheets to the wind, there will be people who embark on activities they shouldn't when stoned. IMO, that's the danger of legalising it.
(And we haven't even touched on the intensive farming practices...)
Wade.
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Post #347,231
9/2/11 9:20:17 PM
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Huh?
Nicotine itself is not harmful and there is debate about if it's even addictive.
Huh? Are these people also debating the flatness of the earth?
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Post #347,233
9/2/11 9:36:54 PM
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Sorry, I made a mistake.
I didn't check my research. It *is* addictive but on it's own, not inordinately so. There are also documented cases of other benefits to brain function.
But my point was that there is arguably more chemical danger from everything else in the cigarettes than the nicotine.
Wade.
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Post #347,236
9/2/11 9:44:11 PM
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That's contrary to what I think I know about it.
Nicotine is extremely addictive. It's also a deadly poison in higher doses.
http://en.wikipedia....icotine_poisoning
Sixty milligrams of nicotine (the amount in about 30-40 cigarettes [1]), has the potential to kill an adult who is not a smoker[2] if all of the nicotine were absorbed. This figure is ~120 mg in chronic cigarette smokers, smoking an average of 20 non-light cigarettes delivering ~1.7 mg of nicotine each daily. One cigarette's-worth of nicotine is enough to make a toddler severely ill. In some cases children have become poisoned by topical medicinal creams which contain nicotine.
[...]
The LD50 of nicotine is 50 mg/kg for rats and 3 mg/kg for mice. 0.5-1.0 mg/kg can be a lethal dosage for adult humans, and 10 mg for children[2][4]. Nicotine therefore has a high toxicity in comparison to many other alkaloids such as cocaine, which in mice has an LD50 of 95.1 mg/kg. A person can overdose on nicotine through a combination of nicotine patches, nicotine gum, and/or tobacco smoking at the same time. [5][6] Spilling an extremely high concentration of nicotine onto the skin can result in intoxication or even death since nicotine readily passes into the bloodstream from dermal contact.[7]
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #347,242
9/2/11 11:37:16 PM
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It also DIRECTLY causes lung cell cancer
Even if it shows up via the blood stream.
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Post #347,243
9/2/11 11:38:46 PM
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You've been brain washed by the Tobacco Institute
Our country debunked all their propaganda during the lawsuits 20 years ago.
Obviously the rest of the world still believes them.
Wow.
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Post #347,247
9/3/11 7:00:37 AM
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You're being side-tracked.
Disregard the comments about nicotine in my original post, then. It wasn't an important. The post was about the uniqueness of marijuana compared to other dangerous drugs both legal and illegal.
(For whatever its worth, I saw a study some years ago that showed genuine improvements to memory and recall with nicotine, particularly absent the other chemistry from a cigarette. I'd be surprised if this was funded by the tabacco industry as it was part of a quality documentary series about the poisons we willingly ingest. That episode was about tobacco.)
Wade.
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Post #347,248
9/3/11 8:19:21 AM
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Small amounts of many things are like that.
Nicotine is a stimulant similar to some other brain chemicals. In small amounts it can enhance things - http://en.wikipedia....al_nervous_system
In the central nervous system
Effect of nicotine on dopaminergic neurons
By binding to nicotinic acetylcholine receptors, nicotine increases the levels of several neurotransmitters - acting as a sort of "volume control". It is thought that increased levels of dopamine in the reward circuits of the brain are responsible for the euphoria and relaxation and eventual addiction caused by nicotine consumption. Nicotine has a higher affinity for acetylcholine receptors in the brain than those in skeletal muscle, though at toxic doses it can induce contractions and respiratory paralysis.[20] Nicotine's selectivity is thought to be due to a particular amino acid difference on these receptor subtypes.[21]
But many other chemicals are like that - some benefits (sometimes important benefits) in small amounts while toxic in larger amounts, too. http://www.actionbio...nt/trautmann.html
Cigarettes are bad. Cigarettes are primarily a nicotine delivery device because nicotine is addictive (thus cigarettes are very profitable for the manufacturers). Nicotine is too strong a poison to play up its benefits "absent the other chemistry from a cigarette" - it's not delivered that way.
But one can easily argue that tobacco built America, so it's not totally black and white...
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #347,261
9/3/11 1:22:34 PM
9/3/11 1:31:42 PM
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Depends if you are not an American and you are dying of lung
cancer.
Types the American holding the smoke filled with tobacco imported from Sweden, which was originally grown in the US.
I make my poor choice with full knowledge of the danger.
I met the DBA that worked for the state of FL that was in charge of the information gathering that led to the Tobacco lawsuits. While they were in the middle of the process, before they won. She was HOT! And married. Not so happily. But I didn't get anywhere with her other than hang out for a couple of days.
So anyway, from an outsider's viewpoint, I'd assume they see us as a recovering crack addict. We are no longer directly addicted but we are poor. And we make money by selling addictive drugs such as tobacco and lie about them. We can't lie to the US people, and we have to put those ugly pictures and sayings on the smokes, but when we sell them outside of the country, we can say they CURE cancer if we want to!
Seems ALL black to some people.
Edited by crazy
Sept. 3, 2011, 01:31:42 PM EDT
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