Things that make you go hmmm.

Post #345,336 by beepster 7/29/11 9:55:39 AM Reply	Things that make you go hmmm. Boehner's plan is no good because it would be a short term (less than one year) change. So how often do the debt ceiling votes push the problem out for more than 12 months. Answer. Not many. http://www.politifac...ling-increases-h/ Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #345,343 by S1mon_Jester 7/29/11 11:33:48 AM Reply	Yeah, but most debt-ceiling hikes are none-issues. This time, there is serious question of whether or not the debt-ceiling will be raised. Now it's apples to oranges.
Post #345,346 by beepster 7/29/11 11:44:59 AM Reply	It's never the same Even when it is. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #345,348 by hnick 7/29/11 12:10:29 PM Reply	Re: It's never the same Perhaps if your guys hadn't been so enthusiastic about stopping government it its tracks while holding the debt limit hostage, it would have been the same. But your guys did, and it isn't the same anymore. You knew that. You're just trolling.
Post #345,351 by beepster 7/29/11 12:22:53 PM Reply	No. Commenting Because I've been "talked to" by our fearless leader who tells me that a short term rise is simply not acceptable though it has been acceptable nearly every time in the last 30 years. It's posturing on their part..both sides are equally complicit and equally interested in making sure we blame the other side. Wonder if Obama will cancel his party on wednesday when we don't have a deal? Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #345,352 by hnick 7/29/11 12:38:20 PM Reply	Are you kidding? Cancel a party? Why would he cancel a party? There would be no government to run so he may as well have a party. He's a millionaire; surely he can spring for a few bags of chips, a few bottles of pop-skull, and a couple cases of beer. Of course, if republicans are coming he can tell them it's BYOB...
Post #345,356 by boxley 7/29/11 1:58:17 PM Reply	One internet win there :-) Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
Post #345,374 by lincoln 7/29/11 5:33:11 PM Reply	Re: No. Commenting both sides are equally complicit That's 100% BULLSHIT and you know it. When the Dems offered a plan that was 85% budget cuts and 15% tax hikes, and the RepibliCANTS STILL WALKED OUT, the RepubliCANTS bought this situation lock, stock and barrel. "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #345,377 by beepster 7/29/11 6:46:38 PM Reply	funny very much so. it isn't like the dems haven't walked from alternatives now, is it? And Reid claimed "savings" that wasn't real...how bullshit is that my friend? So blind you can't see... Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #345,378 by lincoln 7/29/11 7:00:19 PM Reply	When the Dems "walked" did I come here and say that "both sides are equally complicit"? No. "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #345,384 by beepster 7/29/11 9:58:07 PM Reply	nope think you kept right on blaming republicans. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #345,406 by lincoln 7/30/11 12:25:12 PM Reply	Re: nope Perhaps CC&B would be an understandable policy fantasy in normal times. But three years after the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression? We've been violently reminded that there are times when economies contract, and contract fast. Individuals and businesses stop spending, and states and cities have to cut back sharply. The only way to prevent massive layoffs, the only way to give the unemployed some help and the underpaid some relief, is for the federal government to spend. And yet we want to write into the Constitution a requirement that spending remain at 18 percent of the previous year's GDP? That is to say, a requirement that the federal government needs to make recessions worse rather than drawing on its unique capacity to make them better? Are we mad? And Republicans, frankly, know much of this. Ronald Reagan's entire presidency would've been unconstitutional under CC&B. Same for George W. Bush's. Paul Ryan's budget wouldn't pass muster. The only budget that might work for this policy -- if you could implement it -- would be the proposal produced by the ultra-conservative Republican Study Committee. But that proposal was so extreme and unworkable that a majority of Republicans voted it down. The only reason CC&B is faring any better is that it doesn't get specific about what it would require. But properly understood, that makes it much worse policy -- and that's before you realize we're talking about a constitutional amendment, not a simple budget. Ultimately, though, the real sin here isn't that bad policy will pass. It's that we're wasting precious time on bad policy that won't. Everyone involved knows this will never pass the Senate or the White House. Perhaps that would be okay if we didn't have anything better to do. But we have two weeks before we crash the economy into the rocks of the debt ceiling. It's not a good sign that instead of moving towards compromises and tough choices, the House GOP is daydreaming and sloganeering. http://www.washingto...AyukYNI_blog.html Gee ... I just can't understand why I keep blaming the RepubliCANTS for being totally fucking responsible in this situation. "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #345,422 by beepster 7/31/11 1:17:08 PM Reply	wow. quoting a blogger with an agenda...and its ignorance of the fact that AT LEAST cc&b was something that was put for to vote. Compared to Reids "plan" (the ONLY alternative provided by those hard working democan'ts) that claims the war in the middle east will be going on full tilt for ten years...(wait, it won't)...oooh...CLAIM SAVINGS!!! phew...I'm awfully glad to have sanity like that in DC. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #345,444 by lincoln 7/31/11 5:06:34 PM Reply	Re: wow. So the Democrat's plan "claims savings" from ending the war in the Middle East, which is the exact same thing that the RepubliCANT Ryan plan does. Yet you only ridicule the Democratic plan. Tell me, Bill, since Rep. Boehner has been in Congress for the past 20 years, why didn't he give a rat's ass about reducing governmental spending in the first 19 1/2 of those years? Why is he only now concerned about cutting spending? "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #345,459 by beepster 7/31/11 6:45:44 PM Reply	gee, are we there yet? now that we have established that the dem plan and the repo plans offered were both garbage... are we there yet? no, you won't be...to interested in blaming a side. neither side wants a fix. they want you right where you are. looking for someone to blame. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #345,445 by lincoln 7/31/11 5:08:35 PM Reply	Way to miss the points in the post they were even highlighted in bold so you wouldn't miss them. But, of course, you absolutely did miss them (on purpose probably). "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #345,473 by beepster 7/31/11 7:54:41 PM Reply	Its relevant how? by pointing out what all the tpers have been saying all along..that Washington politics as usual CANNOT continue (and that would mean policies and budgets of both parties, and more importantly, actions of the Congress over the past 40 or so years. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #345,548 by lincoln 8/1/11 9:45:12 PM Reply	Where were the TPers in the first 38 years? Saying that the actions of Congress over the past 40 years is what brought us to this point, it's TOTALLY relevant to ask: Where were the Tea Party folks in the first 38 of those years? Why did they only appear when a black Democrat became president? And it's TOTALLY relevant to ask (again): Since Boehner has been in Congress for the past 20 years, why did he not give a rat's ass about the debt ceiling in the first 19 1/2 years of his Congressional career? In the meantime, ask yourself this: with the RepubliCANTS winning this situation by geting their ideology shoved down the throats of Americans, what's in this "compromise" that's good for the Middle Class? "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #345,568 by boxley 8/2/11 9:04:58 AM Reply	waiting to get old enuff to collect social security the TPers paid bazillions of dollars expecting a check and now the government sez dont hold yer breath Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
Post #345,592 by mmoffitt 8/2/11 2:11:22 PM Reply	That's an interesting aside. Who is the biggest US Debt Creditor? The Social Security Trust Fund at around 19% of the total. So, what do the right wingers in Washington decide to do? Cut future benefits. I like the way that works. Me: Say, can I borrow $20.00 from you? I'll pay you interest. You: Sure. 5 years later I still haven't paid you back. Me: Say, I've borrowed a lot of money and now find my debt out of control. You: Really? What are you going to do about that? Me: Oh, it's been a painful decision. There's some wealthy people that morally owe me a ton of money, but I don't want to ask them for it. So I've decided to pay you back $10.00 and call my debt with you even. I have to do that because, well, because I've got to get my fiscal house in order. You (if you're a Republican/Teabagger): That's Great!
Post #345,589 by beepster 8/2/11 1:59:45 PM Reply	Yep. Its only because a black man is president. There we go again. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #345,608 by lincoln 8/2/11 9:36:33 PM Reply	Still won't man up and answer the questions you are a true conservative shill. "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #345,613 by beepster 8/2/11 9:58:25 PM Reply	still can't not resort to the default cry of racism. we're even. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #345,666 by mmoffitt 8/4/11 8:26:57 AM Reply	Come on, Beep. As some one who was accused of being racist because I did not support Obama in 2008, I understand your position. However, you've got to admit among many of his detractors ( Tea Party, Hoosiers (the racism up here is palpable), etc. ) racism is a driving influence.
Post #345,668 by Another Scott 8/4/11 8:30:57 AM Reply	Unpossible!
Post #345,695 by beepster 8/4/11 2:34:55 PM Reply	no more than I will admit that equally as many of his detractors are not...but its always front and center in the argument...you simply are NOT allowed to disagree with this president or you are a racist. And there are hundreds of clips of hollywood stars, talking heads et al telling me this. Whatsername from sat night live comes to mind quickly (janeane g) ...and I had posted that here. I could care less if he was green with purple stripes...I disagree with his policies...as I disagreed with the some of the policies of shrub, some of clinton, some of shrub sr and even some of the vaunted ronnie rayguns. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #345,696 by mmoffitt 8/4/11 3:00:09 PM Reply	Agreed. But I think you're being a bit disingenuous. Most of the vitriol I hear flung in the direction of this president is race based. Maybe it's just that I live in one of the most racist places I've ever been that causes me to draw that conclusion. I dare say every single critic of the president I know here is critical of him for his race. Hell, his policies are largely Dubya's third term, which should appeal to the people I've been speaking with up here. But, Obama's chief problem is that he lost every single age group of White voters in 2008, except the kids (18-24). They showed up for a general election and I didn't anticipate that (chiefly because I hadn't seen it in my life time) and so I bet Obama would lose because of his race. If it had been left to White adults, he would have. Saying most criticisms of Obama are not race based is just dishonest. One thing that I think is beyond dispute about this presidency is that it has erased any thoughts about a "post racial" society.
Post #345,721 by beepster 8/4/11 8:48:17 PM Reply	And I'm in the deep south.. ..and most of what I hear is policy based. To each their own. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #345,738 by mmoffitt 8/5/11 8:26:10 AM Reply	That's funny. I don't find that surprising. The racism in Indiana is vastly worse than anything I ever encountered in North Carolina.
Post #345,766 by crazy 8/5/11 12:29:19 PM Reply	Flyover country is a different world to me In the South, racism is simply part of the culture. People are trained from birth how to interact with the "other", because they see them all the time. But for the most part, it will be under the breath stuff, and rarely discourteous. And they know there will be pushback. After all, they've lived with these people long enough. Flyover country is isolated pockets. The "other" is a legendary invader, not a group of people who live across the street, that will rape and pillage sooner or later. So walls have to be built to keep them out. No ongoing exposure means they get to dehumanize the "other", and kill at will. I expect the next variation of the Nazis to comes from flyover country, not the the deep south.
Post #345,785 by folkert 8/5/11 6:02:17 PM Reply	That also includes... in Indiana, riding Motorcycles. Karen and I went through Indiana on our recent trip. We stopped in am Ice Cream shop surrounded by 4 Churches in a stones throw. We went in, ordered some DAMNED fine Ice Cream and they gave us our Ice Cream free and asked us to leave without hurting them. We exited the building and sat in the shade under the trees along the road. Local Sheriff came upon the locale shortly, went in the Shop. Came out a few minutes later to us. Asked for our Driver's licenses and what we are doing... are we planning on harassing the store owners or committing crimes in the area. He "checked out our bikes" (and mine with a trailer on it) and asked if we knew our fancy radar detectors are illegal in county. I gave him a demonstration of the supposed Radar detectors... They were intercoms for the bike to bike communications. Showed him the Frequencies it ran on (being the same as those hand held civilian communicators)... He finally asked us to just be on our merry way as we were scaring everyone. I laughed and laughed. I explained to him what Karen and I did for a living. I showed him my "rig" for doing remote admin... After all the discussions, he still asked us to leave as we were still technically on the Ice Cream Shop's property. I said... Ok and we geared up and left. I'd forgotten about it, until just now reading about the Racism in Indiana you just posted.
Post #345,786 by Another Scott 8/5/11 6:08:12 PM Reply	Aye yi yi. :-(
Post #345,789 by Ashton 8/5/11 7:54:30 PM Reply	Heh.. my intro to IN-- Enroute from airport in Indianapolis --> Bloomington (on several occasions) Friend P. and I stopped at a decent catfish! roadside cafe. The paper place-mats showed "praying hands" and had some scriptural line. I Knew then ... I wasn't in Kansas any more, Toto. Oddly (or perhaps predictably, as with Berkeley CA) Bloomington appeared to be pretty much Fundie-free, at least to whatever level it is [??] which might cause offense to 'intellectuals'/students whose patronage was primary to bizness survival. Still, when P. had arrived Moscow and I wandered about the place a week or so before returning to CA, there were covert signs of dis-satisfiction ~~ with all this open-minded 'crap'? ... cha cha cha Nope, wouldn't dwell elsewhere in IN for free rent, unless the alternative was even worse (nor is That hard to imagine, either.)
Post #345,943 by mmoffitt 8/8/11 11:58:50 AM 8/15/12 10:57:58 AM Reply	Bloomington is not Indiana. Am shipping my youngest one off to IU in less than two weeks. My late younger brother was actually born in Bloomington while dad (who passed July 2 this year) was in graduate school there. Made his first, true, lifelong Black friend who lived upstairs in "Hoosier Courts" (married housing) right above us. It is a vastly more Progressive place than the rest of the cornfield. [Update]: It's painful to read what I wrote only a year ago. My daughter's first year experience at IU confirms, without any ambiguity at all, that Bloomington is as festering a shithole as the rest of this state. I stand very much corrected. The racism down there is as palpable as it is anywhere and worse - much, much worse. It makes sense when you think about it - Southern Indiana is really Northern Kentucky and IU is still populated largely with Indiana natives. So it stands to reason that it is, like the rest of Indiana, a great place to be from. Edited by mmoffitt Aug. 15, 2012, 10:57:58 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #345,832 by lincoln 8/6/11 11:51:50 AM Reply	That wasn't racism that was just plain fear of stereotypes. "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #345,762 by crazy 8/5/11 12:23:01 PM Reply	No you aren't! FL does not count. More retirees and hispanics than anything else, and the circles you travel in are probably a bit more "reserved" than most. I've seen your social circle. A bunch of very nice smart people. I couldn't imagine them going off in a racist rant against him. On the other hand, I obviously hang out with scumbags. I hear all kinds of anti-Obama stuff, with the vast majority of it being based on the person's fear of a race war, with the blacks finally taking over. They think they already own the cities, and now are going for the rest of the country.
Post #345,764 by Another Scott 8/5/11 12:28:18 PM Reply	Well, there is that... I, also, was going to mention that Florida, especially near the Space Coast, isn't really the Deep South because of all the immigration from elsewhere. It would be like saying that the DC suburbs in Virginia (less than 100 miles from the capital of the Confederacy) were the Deep South. Sure, but not really. Cheers, Scott.
Post #345,776 by boxley 8/5/11 2:16:25 PM Reply	bugs you that the south isnt as racists as the north :-). crazy puts it best, the 2 groups of people are used to it. Deep south or meth lab central where I live is much less racist than most of the north. Dont use the hispanic dressage either. Blacks and hispanic hate each other much more than they hate white folk Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
Post #345,778 by S1mon_Jester 8/5/11 2:47:33 PM Reply	Most of Florida isn't really deep south. Compared to say Memphis, TN or parts of Georgia. Even Orlando is known for its tourists. Florida wasn't that populated during the Civil War and a large chuck of it was turned over to the Seminoles. Fort Clinch (near Jacksonville) is known for being a UNION fort (never taken). It wasn't until AC came along that Florida was really livable. That said - as you go to Tampa along I4...there's a nice huge Civil War flag flying. And I would avoid parts of Christmas and Bithlo, but that's just me.
Post #345,718 by lincoln 8/4/11 8:16:48 PM Reply	Re: no more than I will admit Fox Nation, Malkin Depict President Obama As Urkel -- http://mediamatters....blog/201108040038 Limbaugh Says Obama's Economic "Role Model" Is Robert Mugabe, Who "Took The White People's Farms" -- http://mediamatters....mmtv/201108040018 If I were paid to do it, I would need a few weeks to dig up all of of the racist anti-Obama sentiments on the Internet (some are protected behind pay firewalls). But your position is: "everybody who disagrees with Obama is racist". What a load of horseshit. Just because you moved to a Teabagger state doesn't mean you had to become one. "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #345,722 by beepster 8/4/11 8:50:36 PM Reply	Rush...given the Urkel thing? not at all. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #345,670 by boxley 8/4/11 9:42:15 AM Reply	if you are not a democrat you are a racist by definition ask any democrat Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
Post #345,689 by folkert 8/4/11 12:49:36 PM Reply	Hell Box, you are racist in any case... and don't deny it.
Post #345,692 by boxley 8/4/11 12:59:31 PM Reply	another democrat heard from Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
Post #345,713 by folkert 8/4/11 7:14:53 PM Reply	No. I'm a registered Republican.
Post #345,714 by boxley 8/4/11 7:34:46 PM Reply	racist Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
Post #345,715 by Another Scott 8/4/11 7:48:56 PM Reply	U R doin' it wrong.
Post #345,725 by folkert 8/4/11 10:19:03 PM Reply	ZOMG! U R RITE!
Post #345,590 by beepster 8/2/11 1:59:48 PM 8/2/11 2:00:13 PM Reply	... Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are. Edited by beepster Aug. 2, 2011, 02:00:13 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #345,716 by lincoln 8/4/11 7:52:31 PM 8/4/11 7:54:39 PM Reply	And after all this he refuses to answer the questions, preferring instead to go off-topic and other such avoidance tactics. Pointing out how the RepubliCANTS are wholly responsible for injecting their ideology into the process of raising the debt ceiling is NOT "trying to find somebody to blame", it's being factual. http://iwt.mikevital....iwt?postid=48591 http://iwt.mikevital....iwt?postid=48850 Beep, you're entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow Edited by lincoln Aug. 4, 2011, 07:53:28 PM EDT Edited by lincoln Aug. 4, 2011, 07:54:39 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #345,720 by beepster 8/4/11 8:45:59 PM Reply	This was a game played by both sides pretending otherwise is ignoring the positions of a huge number of new hires in Washington specifically elected on the platform of "no more". To PRETEND (which is what your doing) that this situation was the same is completely ridiculous. To leave Obama blameless for outright rejecting short term hikes until the very end (as your posts clearly indicate was just as much standard practice as passing them) was equally responsible for taking this situation to the brink. It just doesn't fit your world view. It was a campaign promise that changed the balance of power in Congress. Did you honestly think they would just roll over on it? Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.

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