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New heckuva energy policy brownie
http://townhall.com/.../2011/06/19/88886
apt cartoon
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New Laws-of-Physics ... ain't CO-2 a Bitch?


I could almost see voting for Palin Cthulhu in 2012 on the grounds that this sorry ratfucking excuse for a republic, this savage, smirking, predatory empire deserves her. Bring on the Rapture, motherfuckers!
-- via RC
New no, its either a gas, liquid or solid, depends on temp
so tell me oh wise one, we have a solution for it on the space station, why are we not looking at doing the same here?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New $150B for half a dozen people. Yeah, that'll work.
New you talking cap and trade costs and benefit again?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New No, Space Station costs and occupancy. HTH.
New the scrubbers themselves dont cost that much
and if a byproduct is saleable then cleaning up c02 is a win
http://www.physorg.c...ews204365658.html
Another advantage of the biological system is that it requires no heating or cooling, and no toxic chemicals.
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New TANSTAAFL.
Lots of people have been working on carbon sequestration using accelerated natural processes for quite a while. It's not a simple nor cheap problem.

E.g. from 2000 - http://dge.stanford....Caldeira_Rau.html

Abstract

Various methods have been proposed for mitigating release of anthropogenic CO2 to the atmosphere, including deep-sea injection of CO2 captured from fossil-fuel fired power plants. Here, we use a schematic model of ocean chemistry and transport to analyze the geochemical consequences of a new method for separating carbon dioxide from a waste gas stream and sequestering it in the ocean. This method involves reacting CO2-rich power-plant gases with seawater to produce a carbonic acid solution which in turn is reacted on site with carbonate mineral (e.g., limestone) to form Ca2+ and bicarbonate in solution, which can then be released and diluted in the ocean. Such a process is similar to carbonate weathering and dissolution which would have otherwise occurred naturally, but over many millennia. Relative to atmospheric release or direct CO2 injection, this method would greatly expand the capacity of the ocean to store anthropogenic carbon while minimizing environmental impacts of this carbon on ocean biota. This carbonate-dissolution technique may be more cost-effective and less environmentally harmful than previously proposed CO2 capture and sequestration techniques.


(Emphasis added.)

It takes a lot of energy input to make it efficient. E.g. presumably the limestone would have to be trucked in, crushed to suitable dust; the power plant exhaust would have to be filtered to separate toxic things other than CO2 to control the pH, etc., etc.

On the Space Station, they have a nearly unlimited budget by comparison. About the only constraint is mass - mass is very expensive. But if some gizmo that filters/captures/transforms CO2 is very light costs a lot and needs a lot of power, that's not a big deal. One of the gizmo on the space station is the ISS CDRA - http://en.wikipedia....talisation_system . Photos are here - http://onorbit.com/node/1945 - it's not simple. It's had problems over the years.

Cheers,
Scott.
New so when are your parents moving in with you and J?
and siblings of coarse since the only answer you seem to have is to force everyone into the 7th century technology by fiat. Hmm sounds just like another plan folks in Iran have :-)
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New Physics vs Petulance: guess which wins.
New Physics vs Petulance: guess which wins.
apparently the petulant ones since the science is clear, technology catching up but the apocalypticals want us all to live in mud huts riding bicycles
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New Eh?
I'm just saying that scrubbers aren't cheap, and (trying to get back on topic), the solution to high oil prices isn't drilling more. We've been round and round on that, but to recap:

1) It can take years for new wells to start producing and for that new oil to get to market. Issuing new deep water permits isn't going to do anything about gas prices in the next year or more.

2) US oil reserves are tiny. 22.3 Bbbl at the end of 2009 - http://www.eia.gov/o..._reserves/cr.html KSA claims 267 Bbbl - http://en.wikipedia....s_in_Saudi_Arabia

At 18.8 Mbbl/day, if the US only consumed its own oil, and all the reserves are produced, it would be gone in 1187 days - a little over 3 years.

Shale oil and the like aren't a near-term solution - it's dirty (and more expensive to refine), requires a lot of water - and the water and the shale are often in different places, etc. That's going to be expensive, too.

3) Oil is a global commodity. Producing more here isn't going to matter to prices if world consumption grabs that increment and more. See #2.

4) We know that the cheap oil is running out. Prices are going to rise over the long term no matter what we do.

Things can be done in the short term to punish the speculators, but the long term trend is up. We need to get off the treadmill.

The solution isn't to "drill baby drill" and spend billions on scrubbers in order to keep driving larger and larger cars and trucks, it's to do things more efficiently so that we don't need to consume so much in the first place, and to invest in ways of producing power (and portable power) that doesn't require burning stuff.

I'm not a Luddite. I simply think that assuming our future is some larger version of 1950s America is stupid. Remember this? From National Lampoon in 1972 - http://pics.livejour...mes/pic/0049dtgz/ Looks like it's about 15' wide... ;-) Another is here - http://dr-hermes.liv...l.com/480553.html

YMMV.

[edit:] crazy needs a Bossmobile. http://www.flickr.co...3/in/photostream/ Be sure to catch Bruce's TED talk too - http://www.ted.com/t...ux_nostalgia.html (12:57)

Cheers,
Scott.
Expand Edited by Another Scott June 29, 2011, 10:50:38 AM EDT
New even if we went to no gas, all electric
you will still be sending hyarge amounts of c02 into the air, we need to recycle that and saying it is too expensive is poor planning
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New One lie in the cartoon
"Drill offshore?" "No!"

Obama's administration has, in fact, issued over two hundred and seventy since he was sworn into office. It will take some digging but I recall that the oil industry is sitting on thousands of permits for drilling in the Gulf of Mexico ... but they're not using them.

http://crooksandliar...alls-out-bachmann




"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."

-- E.L. Doctorow
New read it and weep demo boy
http://ecocentric.bl...lling-moratorium/
Frustrated twice by the federal courts—which had overturned his original temporary moratorium on deepwater drilling—President Obama Monday evening decided to do what most of us have probably wanted to do when denied by someone in a position of authority: he went ahead anyway. (Sometimes it's good to be President.) Interior Secretary Ken Salazar directed the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, Regulation and Enforcement (BOEM)—the government agency formerly known as the Minerals Management Service (MMS)—to issue new suspensions of deepwater drilling
so "Drill offshore?" "No!"
is in fact accurate
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New That moratorium was lifted in Oct 2010
And if you want to track the permits:
http://www.gomr.boem...well_permits.html
     heckuva energy policy brownie - (boxley) - (15)
         Laws-of-Physics ... ain't CO-2 a Bitch? -NT - (Ashton) - (11)
             no, its either a gas, liquid or solid, depends on temp - (boxley) - (10)
                 $150B for half a dozen people. Yeah, that'll work. -NT - (Another Scott) - (9)
                     you talking cap and trade costs and benefit again? -NT - (boxley) - (8)
                         No, Space Station costs and occupancy. HTH. -NT - (Another Scott) - (7)
                             the scrubbers themselves dont cost that much - (boxley) - (6)
                                 TANSTAAFL. - (Another Scott) - (5)
                                     so when are your parents moving in with you and J? - (boxley) - (4)
                                         Physics vs Petulance: guess which wins. -NT - (Ashton) - (1)
                                             Physics vs Petulance: guess which wins. - (boxley)
                                         Eh? - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                             even if we went to no gas, all electric - (boxley)
         One lie in the cartoon - (lincoln) - (2)
             read it and weep demo boy - (boxley) - (1)
                 That moratorium was lifted in Oct 2010 - (altmann)

Deep down facial creases!
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