Parenting question

Post #34,259 by boxley 4/3/02 10:12:14 AM Reply	Parenting question My oldest boy 13 likes music and this is going to be around in April [link\|http://www.livestock12.com/livestock/bands.html"\|concert] since I like 7dust and Stone temple pilots, he likes Kid Rock and we both sorta tolerate Rob Zombie do you think the wife could be scammed into thinking it would be good for me and the kid to go?:) The last concert I went to was in the 70's so dont know how much BS is involved anymore. Tickets are 50 a pop. thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #34,261 by drewk 4/3/02 10:24:20 AM Reply	Last festival concert I went to ... Four of us went. We ended up with (among us) a broken clavicle, two dislocated/broken fingers, two black eyes, assorted cuts and bruises, and several man-days worth of hangovers. The score would have been worse, except that one of the guys was a kickboxer and managed to pull another guy (the one with the busted clavicle) out of the bottom of the mosh pit. It actually looked like a scene out of a movie. Jay thinks the pit looks like fun, the other three of us stay on the sidelines. He goes down under the crowd, and we start trying to push through to get him. Suddenly Noah starts throwing fists and elbows and cuts a swath through the middle of the crowd. It looked like a whirlpool crashing around a rock as he mowed them down. He finally got to Jay and we dragged him to the first aid station. I think I knew who one of the bands was before I went (we got free tickets) but we ended up leaving before the headliner came on. This was [mumble mumble] years ago, so I can't say if the mosh-pit-as-recreational-fight is still popular. IOW nothing useful to contribute here. === I can't be a Democrat because I like to spend the money I make. I can't be a Republican because I like to spend the money I make on drugs and whores.
Post #34,262 by boxley 4/3/02 10:27:28 AM Reply	No mosh pitting Being an ex bar security type I can maneuver round the shyte and having a kid with me obligates some sobriety. But what was the level of violence outside the pit? thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #34,271 by Another Scott 4/3/02 11:13:36 AM Reply	I've never had a problem. But I rarely fight my way toward the stage. I think it depends on how close you want to be to the stage, how drunk and nasty the crowd is, etc. But my taste in music isn't that far in the grunge, etc., genre and I'm usually far from "the action". Usually you'll have some indication of a problem before it develops into something serious. Recent shows I've seen: The Who Neil Young The Cure The North(?) Mississippi All-Stars Bare Naked Ladies Blue Mountain Son Volt Things of that sort. Venues include the 930 Club in DC, Nissan Pavilion, Wolf Trap, IOTA in Arlington, The Birchmere in Alexandria, etc. I don't think you'll have a problem with trouble. You'll have more annoyances with frat boys talking the whole time during the show, giants blocking your view, people crowding in if you try to have some space to move, etc. :-( Enjoy! Cheers, Scott.
Post #34,317 by Meerkat 4/3/02 6:18:59 PM Reply	No troubles here But then I didn't get to my first proper concert 'til I was 17. I've never been to a gig where fights have broken out, but I've not seen too many bands where I thought it likely to happen. I've been to gigs where plenty of amusing thigns have happened - Sonic Youth were playing at a festival, and toward the end out walks Nick Cave, with Iggy Pop over his shoulder. Now that was cool. Anyway, before I disappear into the hazy days of my misspent youth... Definitely agree with the people-talking-the-whole-time, and giants-blocking-your-view thing. Going to concerts always makes me feel short :) On and on and on and on, and on and on and on goes John.
Post #34,326 by boxley 4/3/02 6:48:29 PM Reply	Well if you look at the site under the rules thing no cell phones or beepers as they have been used as weapons, made me think a little bit. thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #34,471 by broomberg 4/4/02 10:58:01 PM Reply	I just saw Billy Joel and Elton John Serious old man music. I took my 13 year old son, who loves Billy Joel. EXPENSIVE tickets. $175 each. I'm in a section that got released for sale, day of concert, so it was 1/2 empty. I'm in the perfect seat at the FU Center in Philly. Some large, ugly, drunk guy is dancing in the aisle, directly in my view. I wait until Billy Joel starts, ignoring him during Elton John. I get up and lean toward him. Me: Can you please move over a foot? (I consider this a reasonable request.) Him: NO! Me: (shocked, amazed, and a bit pissy): Huh? What? Him: You MOVE! There are plenty of seats, sit in a different one! Me: No! (I am NOT giving up the perfect seat). I'm standing about 1 foot away from him, staring him down. Note: We were screaming to be heard above the concert at this point. Also, I'm a LITTLE guy, who never fought since junior high, no training. On the other hand, he's drunk, and I'm feeling evil, and I'm SURE I can sucker drop him. I continue stare, a foot away, waiting for the next move. Him: Hey, it's a concert! People Stand!!! Me: NO! ASSHOLES STAND!!! I step about 18 inches back, making sure when he swings at me he has to reach, which will throw him off balance, Then I can slam the side of his head as he wraps around. More staring. He has a look of total fury, combined with confused amazement. He is towering over me, and has probably never heard any back talk in his life. He seems to make a decision, and preps for a swing. At that EXACT moment, a security guard grabs him and throws him in his seat. For the next 2 hours, everytime he forgets, he starts to dance in his seat, and slowly rises. He then remembers, does a quick look around, sees me, and then sinks back down in his seat. hehehehehe
Post #34,474 by Silverlock 4/4/02 11:08:18 PM Reply	Yahoo! Damn that felt good. Oh, wait a minute. That was you. So what, it still felt good. The best scale for an experimental design is ten millimeters to the centimeter.
Post #34,501 by CRConrad 4/5/02 8:21:11 AM Reply	Naah; their new privacy policy sucks! Sorry, couldn't resist.
Post #34,549 by broomberg 4/5/02 7:35:06 PM Reply	Yeah, I have those big mouth suicidal moments. About 10 years ago I was on a plane from FL, after visiting my mother with my son, who was about 3 at the time. BIG BIKER, tattoos, beard, beer belly, etc, was sitting behind my son. His kid (11ish) was sitting behind me. The little bastard kept kicking my seat. I turned around and asked him to stop. At least twice. I complained to the dad. Him: What can I do? Me: Excuse me? Him: I can't make him stop. Me: How sad. Incapable of controlling a small child. How pitiful can you get. At that point I realized I was trapped in a plane, my back to someone who was by definition an "outlaw", and I had just insulted him. I spent the rest of the flight waiting to get slammed in the back of the head. I don't remember if the kid stopped kicking. I probably would not have noticed over my adrenaline fueled heatbeat. I met up with him again in the bathroom when we landed, but we ignored each other. Whew.
Post #34,554 by kmself 4/6/02 12:26:35 AM Reply	Air seating I don't recall the specifics, but I was in a flight, someone had stuck something in the seat pocket behind me, that was poking me in the back. I explained the problem. No response. I reiterated the problem, more vocally. No response. I jammed my elbow into the back of my seat, full force, dislodging something, and generating a notable, though incoherent, response, in the seat behind me. No problems for the remainder of the flight. Sometimes it helps to be 6'2", 240#+, and fairly compelling in person ;-) Or, as I remarked to someone here a few weeks ago who'd noted that a "self described real asshole was actually a really good friend in person": Most of us who are real assholes have spent too much time polishing the skill to waste it on people or circumstances where it doesn't pay out. `-- Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com] [link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|[link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand? Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead. [link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|[link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]]`
Post #34,568 by static 4/6/02 5:53:21 AM Reply	Yes, you're bigger than your photo suggests. :-) "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
Post #34,277 by andread 4/3/02 12:29:39 PM Reply	13 is old enough We took our son (now 16) to his first outdoor show when he was a few weeks old (he doesn't remember) and to plenty of them since. Most are fairly mellow although when he was five someone knocked him down and then had the nerve to say to me 'if the little dude can't take it he shouldn't be up here' this was reggae, no mosh pit When Jesse was about 13 he wanted to see Wyclef Jean and since a band I liked was opening I took him. We worked our way up to the very front during the first band and I told him if he really wanted to see Wyclef he should stay right there for the rest of the show (I was going way in the back where they even had a few chairs). I explained to him that because he was right on the fence in front of the stage he could only get pressure from behind but if he moved back even a step he could be crushed in all directions and would not enjoy the show. The security guys said they would keep on eye on him, but I discounted that. He stayed right there and got to shake Wyclef's hand and catch his water bottle. Have fun A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #34,299 by CRConrad 4/3/02 3:15:22 PM Reply	The guy had a point, IMnshO. I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to be looking out for people -- kids -- down around knee-height, or to walk carefully enough not to knock some thirty-pound tyke over, at venues where there usually aren't any kids at all. How the fuck was he supposed to be expecting that to happen?!? Christian R. Conrad Of course, who am I to point fingers? I'm in the "Information Technology" business, prima facia evidence that there's bats in the bell tower. -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=27764\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #34,328 by boxley 4/3/02 6:50:02 PM Reply	Well his kid was 13, so is mine 5.8 150lbs big enough ? TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #34,347 by CRConrad 4/3/02 8:24:30 PM Reply	No, YOUR kid's 13 - Andy's was 5 at the time. Sheesh, Box... ...do try to keep the facts straight, willya?!? I mean, it's bad enough you often write at closer to a five- than a thirteen-year-old's level, but you can read, cant'cha?!? Yeah, since he's bigger than most women and as big as many men -- and most men would expect to see women, and other men, at a rock concert where they wouldn't expect to be stepping on toddlers, don'cha think? -- he'll probably be OK. To expect someone to run him over is about as unreasonable as not to expect someone to run over a five-year-old, in that situation, you see. Sheesh... What is it with you people? As soon as you've procreated, you give up your brains at the door, or what? Christian R. Conrad Of course, who am I to point fingers? I'm in the "Information Technology" business, prima facia evidence that there's bats in the bell tower. -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=27764\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #34,348 by boxley 4/3/02 8:30:32 PM Reply	reading is fundamental "When Jesse was about 13 he wanted to see Wyclef Jean and since a band I liked was opening I took him" where the fuck is the 5? thanx:) bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #34,353 by ben_tilly 4/3/02 9:13:57 PM Reply	Um, Christian has a point To answer your question, [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=34277\|...although when he was five someone knocked him down and then had the nerve to say to me 'if the little dude can't take it he shouldn't be up here'...] Christian's reply was talking about that incident. Cheers, Ben "... I couldn't see how anyone could be educated by this self-propagating system in which people pass exams, teach others to pass exams, but nobody knows anything." --Richard Feynman
Post #34,378 by andread 4/4/02 8:51:24 AM Reply	Just to clarify.... Yes, Jesse was knocked down when he was five Just for the record, we had gone to the same outdoor concert the year before and had hung out at the front the whoel time without incident Sorry for any confusion but we have been to lots of concerts A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #34,392 by boxley 4/4/02 9:58:58 AM Reply	where is that sign url again? sheesh:) TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #34,438 by CRConrad 4/4/02 5:14:45 PM Reply	Indeed it is... and you failed. As Ben pointed out, I was replying to the second paragraph of Andy's post. In the third para, which you are talking about, Andy and his kid had no problem when the boy was thirteen (provided some reasonable precautions were taken). But, more fundamentally... there Andy only talks about an anonymous "pressure from behind" -- where the fuck is the guy I was saying "had a point", in that?!? Don't try to sign me any signs, bubba -- you just got it wrong; be a man, admit it, and let us all get over it. Oh, and go to that concert, take your big young son with you, and have fun! :-) Christian R. Conrad Of course, who am I to point fingers? I'm in the "Information Technology" business, prima facia evidence that there's bats in the bell tower. -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=27764\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #34,295 by Ashton 4/3/02 2:49:06 PM Reply	A practical concern Do you want him to be able to hear later one - like for the rest of his life? I can't pretend to know what dBa levels are current in '02 but.. I Know that the message about permanent ear-damage is unwelcome to hear by fans: so they don't listen to that message. [no pun intended]. With the right kind of small protectors you CAN hear "the music" (quite well, especially when it IS already at lethal volume). Pretty cheap insurace IMhO, but especially for young'uns... Anytime your ears ring, even a little - after you leave: you DID at least some permanent damage to the cilia. They don't grow back. Same deal for shooters: just ONE super-loud report will do and, it integrates over a lifetime. FWIW Ashton
Post #34,296 by Another Scott 4/3/02 3:02:03 PM Reply	Good advice. Even kleenex helps some.
Post #34,329 by boxley 4/3/02 6:51:29 PM Reply	good point, he is already partially deaf. As I am. Will ask the ear doc. thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #34,366 by static 4/4/02 12:18:30 AM Reply	On that note... ... I can count on one hand the number of concerts I've been to; both times the music was not unreasonably loud, though the system was very noisy at one of them. However, the music was much louder the one and only time I went to a "Jukebox Saturday Night" put on by Sydney radio station 2WS. I also rarely use headphones. Whilst this means I've missed out on a lot of concert/performance culture, it means at 30 I have much better high-end hearing than many 20 year olds. I doubt I will need a hearing aid later in life. People often tell me the tradeoff is definitely worth it, but I cannot successfully evaluate this. Wade. "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
Post #34,472 by broomberg 4/4/02 11:02:07 PM Reply	High end hearing sucks I'd rather loose the high frequencies. I hear computer monitor squeals that no one else can (except my mother!). And they are ANNOYING!
Post #34,476 by Silverlock 4/4/02 11:21:53 PM Reply	Mine is gone I used to be a roadie/sound man/light man. It never really mattered until the guys I worked for got popular. Once we starting being able to turn down offers, and started doing multi-band shows, the equipment got better and the venues got larger. Much, much louder. with a hell of a lot more noise from the crowd. I had to hear what was happening in order to mix the sound, which meant no headphones or earplugs. I would like to be able to hear the high end now. I worked for many different bands but was generally tied to just the one. Started out as just helping some old friends from high school for free beer. They somehow became the most popular band in town. I can remember doing 12 gigs in one week. I will tell you one thing- Roadies don't make enough money for the work. (Unbelievable perks though, use your imagination) The best scale for an experimental design is ten millimeters to the centimeter.
Post #34,926 by 3) 4/10/02 1:10:25 AM Reply	Aesthetic as well Ear plugs cut noise more than clean tones. Wearing earings, I can hear my radio clearly, at sane volumes, while running a power saw. Same volume radio without plugs, and I can't tell whether the radio is on or off. I am not a man, I am a free number.

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