"To say nothing of the dog"

Post #337,563 by rcareaga 12/22/10 9:59:41 PM Reply	"To say nothing of the dog" But we must say something of the dog, a shepherd-husky mix I first met as a frisky two year-old back in 1995. He was a dog of great character and sufficient intellect (the younger dog on the premises matches the senior for character, and is a very Einstein for mental horsepower), and it has been sad to watch these qualities erode along with his physical vigor these latter years. He weighed about 75 pounds in his prime, and is now down to 56. His social interactions with people, formerly complex and frisky, are now decidedly pro forma. He is only intermittently continent indoors: ugh. If he lives to March, he'll turn 18, very old for a dog of his dimensions. There seem to be a lot of good reasons to put him down, except that: take him for a walk and the poor old thing comes alive. He staggers along the sidewalk on his arthritic legs, and takes such obvious pleasure in snuffling up the chemical signals laid down by other passing canines that one would have to possess the soul of a vivisectionist to deny him a further day of this experience. I'll miss the old boy when he's gone. cordially,
Post #337,568 by boxley 12/22/10 10:18:48 PM Reply	thats always a tough call, sympathies Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
Post #337,575 by Another Scott 12/22/10 11:58:21 PM Reply	Best wishes. As box said, it's hard... :-(
Post #337,577 by jbrabeck 12/23/10 5:54:33 AM Reply	Had to do it with one of my dogs a couple years ago. blubbered like a baby. Condolences.
Post #337,578 by hnick 12/23/10 7:17:06 AM Reply	I know the feeling well. My dog, Samantha, was dieing about this time last year. The vet considered we'd be doing good to get her to New Year. She's still here, still dieing of the same diseases, but much more slowly. Some days aren't so good, but the majority of them make up for it. She's not in pain and she still loves to chase squirrels and eat and bark at guests when they arrive so I figure her quality of life is still good. It's rather expensive to keep her going, but as long as the joy is there, I'll keep hanging on. It's a very hard agonizing call to make though. You have my sympathies. Hugh
Post #337,580 by drook 12/23/10 9:20:20 AM Reply	My imagination, or does this always happen at the holidays? For us it was just before Thanksgiving last year. We knew he was getting on in years, but when the end came it was mercifully quick. I haven't had to face that choice yet. Just as a practical matter, are you giving him anything for the arthritis? My uncle (the vet) had us give Woodie an Aleve once a day. Days we forgot he visibly had more trouble on the stairs. -- Drew
Post #337,582 by rcareaga 12/23/10 10:16:43 AM Reply	the long goodbye He's been on the glide path for a couple of years now, but the slope is getting discernibly steeper these latter months. We've had him on Zubrin, a somewhat pricey non-steroidal anti-inflammatory, on and off since at least 2006, and it seems to help. I think that should the day arrive when he's unable to struggle to his feet anymore...well... cordially,
Post #337,611 by Ashton 12/24/10 4:18:28 AM Reply	Candle still lit.. My guess is that, you'll Know when N. doesn't want to 'rise and shine', one morning, and then maybe the next one, too. Nobody (I've encountered) knows any 'rules' that make picking Which Day?? any easier. (Sierra made her choice evident: I had taken her in, thinking This was the day.) Her forceful rejection of the efforts to insert a catheter into front leg, showing more energy in that YOWL than all week -- made it a great relief to say, Stop! she Isn't Ready.* She got 3 weeks of Life #10, via that spirited NO!! Luck, I. * fwiw Believe now that Na-pentothal injection beats the "2-stage" process used by many vets. As I have had that (same stuff) used, I Know how effective/instant and painless a soporific it is. The catheters (for cats fershure) entail just the kind of handling + initial pain of catheter insertion ... which makes them dread a vet visit, anyway. Doubt that dogs are very different. Sorry..
Post #337,599 by static 12/23/10 10:09:47 PM Reply	It doesn't. My dog died in the middle of the year when I was 12. Well, I say "my" dog because he wasn't nearly so special for my siblings. He had had a good, long life. Heartworm got him in the end. Wade. Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers? A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
Post #337,643 by rcareaga 12/24/10 11:38:19 PM Reply	our pets ask for so little... I'm aware that there's a school of thought holding that domesticated animals are virtual-cynical automata evolutionarily programmed to simulate love and devotion. I do not completely dismiss this modelÂthese creatures have had hundreds of thousands of generations to adapt themselves to, and to exploit, the emotional tropisms that a territorial, highly-social primate brought with it out of the savannah a million or more years ago. I don't doubt that many people project their emotional states upon their pets. And yet, and yet... I believe that our own emotions emanate from a substrate deeper than our human or even our primate heritage. Threat displays ("Bad dog!") and gestures of affection "Good dog!") are registered at a level far older than language, and common to our respective species. Daniel Dennett once observed that while our closest primate relatives might hover near the threshold of language, it was the domestic canine, notwithstanding the species' cognitive disadvantage relative to the chimps, that had been for tens of thousands of years under intensive selective pressure to comprehend human intentions. I don't think that we're projecting when we attribute "love" to dogs: they are returning that—perhaps without the abstract nuances we are wont to bring to bear, but also without the neurotic qualifications that accompany those considerations. I wasn't really a "dog person" in my younger years. I'm better for being one now. cordially,
Post #337,669 by static 12/25/10 5:36:46 PM Reply	Absolutely. Cats and dogs have immense capacity for a simple, straightforward love for their owners. It is not completely unconditional, but a lot of it is "I love you because you're there". This is why the lonely and isolated can benefit so much from them. I can completely agree that it is a special feeling when a dog that hasn't seen you for a few weeks will go completely nuts for you. Wade. Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers? A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
Post #337,674 by Ashton 12/25/10 9:48:40 PM Reply	Concur re the 'programmed automata' dismissal of the whole matter of pet/human interactions. Anyone who has experienced the evidence of some sequence of say, a confirmed mutual communication -- especially of an emotional kind and not about some trick -- will dismiss that both cynical and uninformed thesis. (I could give specific anecdotes, with enough details to demonstrate a level of communication (and empathy!) in some situation/just-occurred, which could not be mistaken for either 'instinctual engrams' or any variation of 'simulation-for-reward'.) But when seeking the simplest shorthand, I come back to guilelessness -- that quality noticed to be so alien to so many bipeds (perhaps because it is the anti-virtue to that requisite canniness? (aka patent misinformation/obfuscation) -- demanded of all those who would achieve 'Success' in any business-related sense of that vague term. Animals have not the intellect for relating 'love' to any sort of 'profit scheme' -- is that not obvious by inspection? How could a one Not-love a guileless creature, given the milieu in which we daily operate? That this love can be reciprocated, needs no explication for/by those who have experienced it. But only too-many-words would be required to attempt to dissect and dismember the idea -- via various anthropomorphized koans, all derived from biped Psych. 101. I recall a quip by a 'guru' to his students, who wanted to learn about all that metaphysical stuff (and also about 'love'). He said ~~ "You know nothing of love [Love, probably meant, where the capitalization has implications.] If you want to find out about that, first adopt a pet and find out how to love. Later, you might then learn -- with enough diligence -- how, someday, to love another person." Could be something to that.

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