According to researchers, diesels greener then electrics.

Post #332,087 by Andrew Grygus 8/31/10 12:37:58 PM Reply	According to researchers, diesels greener then electrics. A Swiss study shows that a number of small, high efficiency diesel autos have less environmental impact than electrics (and are a lot cheaper). http://www.theregist...estroy_the_world/
Post #332,090 by boxley 8/31/10 1:26:13 PM Reply	yup Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
Post #332,102 by drook 8/31/10 3:51:40 PM Reply	Point at the end And if nobody buys battery cars now, they'll stay expensive and scarce forever, so it's still possible to view the act of buying one as green even today when they actually do more damage to the environment than the right internal-combustion model. Ref: Innovator's Dilemma and disruptive technology The new thing is never as efficient as the old thing. Until it is. Then the new thing quickly becomes the only thing. -- Drew
Post #332,103 by Andrew Grygus 8/31/10 4:41:16 PM Reply	But, of course there are problems. Cost reduction and efficiency improvement for electric vehicles are limited. Electric power production costs aren't going to change much, nor is the cost of making vehicles, except for quantity discounts, because they're basically the same as internal combustion vehicles. There is no chance of improvement in electric motors which are already up in the high 90% range. So that leaves battery technology as the only real leverage. Unfortunately the United States and Canada are rather low in lithium reserves so we'll end up with a dependence on foreign lithium. Fortunately neither China nor the Arabs are leaders here. Bolivia, Afghanistan, Chile, Argentina and Australia are the leaders, Chile, Bolivia and possibly Afghanistan by a wide margin. Of course, if we maintain Afghanistan as an occupied tributary state that could assure a low cost supply. There's always the possibility of a breakthrough in battery or fuel cell tecnology - but none seems known right now.
Post #332,104 by mhuber 8/31/10 5:08:24 PM Reply	Critical assumption: The research assumes a non-green generator. The big theoretical advantage to an electric car is that you aren't tied to a particular type of energy source, you can drive it on electricity from anything. You can't put a nuke under your hood, and sailcars are cool but tacking upwind on the Interstate during rush hour is rude. Eventually, electric will be the only option, because it is the only one that comes with options. And because the transformative technology of the current era is batteries. For now, diesel is pretty good. And it has options too, because you can make it out of stuff other than oil. I have never been that impressed by hybrids - the mileage just doesn't seem that impressive for a whole new thing. What, 40 MPG or something? A little car with a decent regular engine gets 30+. With a really nice engine the + can be substantial. --------------------------------------- I think it's perfectly clear we're in the wrong band. (Tori Amos)
Post #332,114 by Ashton 9/1/10 4:46:45 AM Reply	'MTBF' - hybrid Achilles Heel, it would seem LOTS of electronics has to work flawlessly -- in one of the most demanding environments known, short of extra-terrestrial activities: an auto 'maintained' by (mostly) a one who knows-not even Ohm's Law, from Alaskan temps to Death Valley, etc. Mean Time Between Failures ... let's watch that, as the cute Prii age, perhaps not quite so gracefully. (OTOH, a cute VW super-diesel as owned by Scott K -- can be maintained with stone knives and bearskins, be run on the spare pomade-gel used by Uncle Fester to keep his mullet on ... run that sucker on a decent syn-oil and super-filter and, it'll outlive this tattered Republic -- especially at its current rate of disassembly. But what do I know, compared to the Great Murican Marketing Cartels.
Post #332,118 by Another Scott 9/1/10 7:41:44 AM Reply	Hey, don't over-sell it. :-) The VW's been a good car, but it's far from perfect. Oil changes are about $70 (every 10k miles) - the engine requires a special spec oil "VW 505.01" that is spendy. It is very smokey if you stomp on the go pedal (lots of soot). That's one reason why I almost never rev it above 2000 rpm. (I generally drive it like a grandmother.) It is a little smokey for a few seconds when first started, especially in the winter. (Some of the last may be due to the glow plugs needing to be changed from a ceramic plug to a metal plug - it's part of an emissions recall that I haven't had done yet.) I believe later "common-rail" TDIs are better on the emissions front due to soot traps, better combustion control, etc., but I don't know for sure. While the latest common-rail 16-valve 2.0 TDI is much more powerful and probably has lower emissions (140 HP at 4200 rpm, 236 lb-ft at 1750 rpm vs 100 HP at 4000, 177 lb-ft at 1800 for my 8 valve 1.9 TDI-PD), they get lower mileage. I've not been brave enough to run it on biodiesel. I don't know if I ever will. I want it to last, and I've read too many anecdotes about acids in the cooking oil, etc. that might (or might not) cause problems over time. I dunno about the electric vs diesel arguments at the moment. Too many competing agendas... Cheers, Scott. (Who is hoping for a TDI-hybrid by the time he buys again, but fears the auto diesel is on its way out over the next 10 years or so.)
Post #332,120 by boxley 9/1/10 8:03:28 AM Reply	vs $30 every 3k miles, no diff do the mod for biodiesel after the car has no resale value. A car that smokes that you wont get a ticket for? Huge plus. Diesels will be around for a long time. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep

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