Post #329,186
7/6/10 6:56:15 PM
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Andy Grove suggests hard protectionism
http://www.businessw...4186048358596.htm
The first task is to rebuild our industrial commons. We should develop a system of financial incentives: Levy an extra tax on the product of offshored labor. (If the result is a trade war, treat it like other warsÂfight to win.) Keep that money separate. Deposit it in the coffers of what we might call the Scaling Bank of the U.S. and make these sums available to companies that will scale their American operations. Such a system would be a daily reminder that while pursuing our company goals, all of us in business have a responsibility to maintain the industrial base on which we depend and the society whose adaptabilityÂand stabilityÂwe may have taken for granted.
That is a pretty hard protectionist position. Taxing imports to fund a subsidy for companies that want to build up production facilities in the US. It doesn't have a chance, but it is in interesting suggestion.
The suggestion is just a small part of the article though, most of it is a very sensible history of how we ended up in this position.
Jay
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Post #329,188
7/6/10 7:13:14 PM
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trade war is a bad idea
subsidizing home grown manufaturing has the same effects as a tariff but without the international ramifications
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Post #329,189
7/6/10 7:22:12 PM
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How would we pay for it?
You know the Republicans would oppose anything along these lines, and funding the subsidy would be the first salvo.
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Drew
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Post #329,193
7/6/10 7:33:27 PM
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overly pessimistic
fund it with tax credits.
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #329,194
7/6/10 7:39:17 PM
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conagra ring a bell? tax credits
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Post #329,216
7/7/10 10:55:38 AM
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Farm subsidies are a whole different animal
Subsidies should help industries where foreign competition is driving them out of business. That's not happening in agriculture.
There's almost nothing about the current farm subsidies that's a useful example of how things should be run.
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Drew
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Post #329,217
7/7/10 10:56:47 AM
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republicans support those, they can support manufacturing
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Post #329,192
7/6/10 7:31:51 PM
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Local subsidies have their own problems.
Just look at the corn market in the US. Though that's really an example of "yur doin it wrong".
The *real* solution is to flatten the economic differences between manufacturing areas. That doesn't necessarily mean raising the living standards of SE Asia; in a lot of ways it means lowering the standards of the West. :-/
Wade.
Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers? A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
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Post #329,210
7/7/10 7:29:33 AM
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Tim Duy analyzes why the American Job Machine is Broken.
http://economistsvie...chine-broken.html It's a good read with lots of scary graphs.
[...]
If manufacturing is critically important to driving trends of national well being, an exploration of the decline of that sector is crucial. But that exploration almost always leads back to a very difficult place - international trade. And every right minded economist and policymaker knows unequivocally that free trade is good, and to even question that assumption makes one an ignorant heretic who has never heard of Smoot-Hawley. Therefore, the examination ends. Manufacturing's decline simply cannot be a problem if it is consequence of international trade because everyone knows international trade is good.
Just as everyone "knew" that the increased liquidity offered by exotic financial instruments and the free flow of capital was unequivocally good. But that is a different story.
Indeed, the establishment will defend any assault on free trade with a simple, seemingly unassailable story: NAFTA was followed by the 1990s jobs boom in the US even as the current account deficit widened. Therefore, free trade does not have net negative impacts. Winners and losses, yes, but the former outweigh the latter.
I have told that story myself.
Such a story, of course, denies the importance and unrelated rise of information technology - a once in a generation tectonic shift that, ironically, vastly accelerated the offshoring of manufacturing capacity the following decade. But even more importantly, it fails to acknowledge that while free trade produces net positive effects, that process can certainly be upset by the deliberate manipulation of currency values. And make no mistake, those values have been manipulated. There can be no other excuse for the massive buildup of official reserve assets in global central banks.
[...]
There may be an additional implication for fiscal policy. Declining rates of industrial capacity investment suggest that maintaining full employment requires acceleration in other sectors. In the last decade this was accomplished via the redirection of investment capital to housing and consumer spending with a related debt bubble. The unsustainability of that approach is now evident. Thus, if willingness to invest in industrial capacity remains weak, we can expect that that the government sector will need to fill the gap for much longer than many believe. In short, if domestic investment is limited not by negative animal spirits, but by a rational fear that such investment will rapidly be rendered obsolete by the mercantilist policies of other nations, then government investment becomes ever more important.
Bottom Line: Something more than cyclical forces is weighing on the American jobs machine. Here I have tried to extend the Grove/Smith/Sethi discourse with additional focus on absolute declines in manufacturing jobs and distressing declines in capacity growth rates. These trends may be critically important in understanding the dismal performance of US labor markets. If they are in fact critical, they raise serious questions about US trade policy - questions that few in Washington want to address. Given the extent to which manufacturing capacity has already been offshored, those questions go far beyond the recently announced tiny shift in Chinese currency policy. Simply put, accepting the importance of manufacturing capacity and the possibility that offshoring has had a much more deleterious impact on the US economy than commonly accepted would requrie a significant paradigm shift in the thinkink of US policymakers. If you scream "protectionist fool" in response, then you need to have a viable policy alternative that goes beyond the empty rhetoric of "we need to teach better creative thinking skills in schools." That answer is simply too little too late.
(via Yglesias)
It's always important to evaluate assumptions, but especially in periods of traumatic change. As Krugman said recently, "Question Authority."
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #329,212
7/7/10 8:06:48 AM
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bwahahahahahaeven Krugman doesnt buy his own stuff :-)
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Post #329,224
7/7/10 12:43:20 PM
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Those scary looking graphs
are part of the problem that makes this period of fiscal crisis so much different from the one in the mid to late 1940s.
We (imo, of course) are dangerously close to the point where we will have to go to a policy of monetization...and the US is only able to operate as we have been because of investor confidence. Its like Bear Stearns on steroids...all is well if you can keep the investors happy...once they flee, the house of cards collapses very quickly.
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #329,426
7/11/10 7:07:15 PM
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MikeG at Balloon-Juice has a reply for Andy
http://www.balloon-j.../#comment-1882254
Mike G
Grove would have more credibility if his own company, Intel, wasnÂt leading the charge to outsourching and overseas R&D and chip manufacturing over the past few decades.
I remember an economic forum during the tech boom where the CEO of Intel (not Grove) was asked, with companies like yours moving design and research overseas, where does that leave American engineers? (Intel were supporting and encouraging college engineering programs at the time). He basically said tough shit in polite business-bullshit-speak. Reap what you sow, hypocrite.
That attitude seems to be incredibly common in the management of large US corporations. Whether or not Andy himself has had a bit of an epiphany now, it's clear that when he was running Intel he inculcated that attitude.
"Rah Rah America!" is the slogan trotted out when US companies want something from Uncle Sam. :-(
Cheers,
Scott.
(Who is never-the-less in favor of dramatically expanded US R&D investment, including investment in new technologies that lead to sustainable increases in middle-class employment.)
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Post #329,438
7/11/10 9:38:14 PM
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I don't see the connection
As CEO of Intel, Grove is paid to exploit the existing rules as ruthlessly as possible, squeezing every penny he can. Only Andy Grove, the American Citizen, is concerned with the overall US well being.
This is one of the reasons that corporations should only have a limited say in politics. By their nature, they are not even concerned with the long term economic strength of the US, let along the overall well being of the citizens.
Jay
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