Post #325,764
5/6/10 11:23:08 AM
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I'm glad the bay area crowd is so enlightened
and so tolerant...
http://www.nbcbayare...ome-92945969.html
Galli says he and his friends were sitting at a table during brunch break when the Vice Principal asked two of the boys to remove American flag bandannas that they wearing on their heads and for the others to turn their American flag t-shirts inside-out. When they refused, the boys were ordered to go to the principal's office.
"They said we could wear it on any other day, but today is sensitive to Mexican Americans because it's supposed to be their holiday so we were not allowed to wear it today," Daniel Galli said.
The boys said the administrators called their t-shirts "incendiary" that would lead to fights on campus.
They said if we tried to go back to class with our shirts not taken off, they said it was defiance and we would get suspended," Dominic Maciel, Galli's friend, said.
Well, I can tell you that I would have first thought, with an idiotic story like this, that the bay area being referred to was Tampa Bay (since most stupid intolerant school stories seem to happen in Florida)...but no...this prize goes to California for this weeks idiocy award.
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #325,774
5/6/10 1:29:28 PM
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One person's a moron
and you indict the whole state. Jump to incorrect projections much?
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #325,781
5/6/10 1:57:24 PM
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Not really
as I fully expect the school board idiocy award to return to Florida soon...this guy just earned it for this week.
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #325,782
5/6/10 2:25:38 PM
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texass ring a bell?
If we torture the data long enough, it will confess. (Ronald Coase, Nobel Prize for Economic Sciences, 1991)
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Post #325,783
5/6/10 2:59:11 PM
5/6/10 3:02:18 PM
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Amen!
edit: got to thinking that Touché should be linc's response, not mine. A double-check of the definition confirmed my usage was incorrect.
Edited by SpiceWare
May 6, 2010, 03:02:18 PM EDT
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Post #325,784
5/6/10 3:01:19 PM
5/6/10 3:03:03 PM
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dupe - thought I hit edit.
Edited by SpiceWare
May 6, 2010, 03:03:03 PM EDT
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Post #325,829
5/7/10 4:08:09 PM
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Yeah it does
and since I live here, reading its newspapers and watching its actions on the 10 o'clock news every night, I get to see dozens, nay, hundreds of morons doing and saying incredibly stupid stuff annually. It took quite a build-up of putting up with these people before I turned to the dark side - as Spiceware can attest to since he's known me since 2001. I have not always been anti-Texas; however, too many people like Gov. Perry and the ultra-right wingnuts have pushed me into the liberal camp.
My comment about Beep's post stands on its merits - he damned a whole state for the actions of >ONE< person.
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #325,835
5/7/10 6:09:03 PM
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Yep,
And i will probably do it again at some point so try not to be so sensitive:)
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #325,836
5/7/10 6:09:14 PM
5/7/10 6:11:33 PM
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Oops
First experience with an iPad. Sensitive bugger
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
Edited by beepster
May 7, 2010, 06:11:33 PM EDT
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Post #325,837
5/7/10 6:09:15 PM
5/7/10 6:10:23 PM
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Dupe
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
Edited by beepster
May 7, 2010, 06:10:23 PM EDT
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Post #325,838
5/7/10 6:10:23 PM
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You'll probably do it at least 3 times
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Post #325,839
5/7/10 6:12:18 PM
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iPad error
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #325,841
5/7/10 6:21:21 PM
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First time I posted on Usenet, I sent the message 25 times.
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Post #325,956
5/10/10 4:46:12 PM
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Ok...how about round 2 for CA
http://www.breitbart...tm_medium=twitter
The battle over the American flag has reached a middle school art class in CaliforniaÂs Santa Rita School District where a student was told not to draw Old Glory because it was Âoffensive"
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #325,958
5/10/10 6:16:56 PM
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well the flag is racist and divisive in a multicultural area
If we torture the data long enough, it will confess. (Ronald Coase, Nobel Prize for Economic Sciences, 1991)
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Post #325,996
5/11/10 2:07:35 PM
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Leaving info out
She had drawn the flag and was sketching the letters, "God Bless America", when the teacher confronted her
It's a public school and this was an art class, not a theology class.
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #325,999
5/11/10 2:30:38 PM
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Really
God Bless America is offensive?
Ok. Sure. Whatever you say.
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #326,007
5/11/10 4:25:17 PM
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'The War Prayer' / Mark Twain
So then.. the tykes are to suppose that *GOD* shall naturally decimate the category, "Not-US" -- and that this is a given because.. We Be So Good / They Be So Bad ... forever etc. etc. (and various forms of rationalizations of what IS: a philosophy / theosophy matter with No Decent Solution
| thus quite unlike anything which 'Art' might connote, imply, Accept.
I. See. the basis of your predictable auto-sarcasm. Logic failed as did Reason. But not dogma.
Carrion, it's ripe
Wanna do the "purple majesties" and the "gleaming alabaster cities undimmed by human tears" ... while inculcating your anthems into nascent tyke minds?
I could almost see voting for Palin in 2012 on the grounds that this sorry ratfucking excuse for a republic, this savage, smirking, predatory empire deserves her. Bring on the Rapture, motherfuckers!
-- via RC
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Post #326,008
5/11/10 4:33:23 PM
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I see...
...so a 12 year old draws a flag with "in God we Trust" and in our open and free society (free from religious persecution...I seem to remember that was one of the main reasons for folks to cross the pond" is now told that using the G word is offensive.
Obviously, you agree..and so the grand social experiment must have failed...because she was persecuted SPECIFICALLY for her religious belief.
Yes, thats a "good thing". Of course, had she drawn that flag and those words along with a picture of her two adopted daddies...that would probably be "enlightened".
Well, at least she got the colors right.
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #326,015
5/11/10 5:55:03 PM
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Umm . . . not exactly - in fact, not at all.
(free from religious persecution...I seem to remember that was one of the main reasons for folks to cross the pond The reason for crossing was to enable them to be the persecuters - something they did very well indeed once established here. That was a major reason why the Constitution is so firm about matters of religious freedom.
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Post #326,026
5/11/10 10:12:35 PM
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Suppose its half empty/half full
were being persecuted, got here and practiced turnabout...so catholics go here, protestants go there...and we straightened out somewhat about the time of the revolution.
Regardless...
You can't be punished or chastised based on religion. Seems that the base response now is that the only acceptable religion is no religion, not the freedom to believe anything you choose.
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #326,033
5/12/10 3:04:03 AM
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Believe ... whatever fits your fancy
Start proselytizing with an aim to force others to your fav koans: Trouble Arises.
(We Know what's Best for the zygote in your womb, cha cha cha.)
(We just-Know that God Hates Fags, cha cha cha.)
( ____ )
.
.
.
(and like that.)
Pretty simple, really: ~*Golden Rule will do -- then eschew browbeating others to share your One True God?
Is that so HARD to grok to fullness?
* Not all that simple, either: what you might like "done to yourself" might be anathema to someone oriented Differently -- that should go without Saying, of course; surprisingly, it oft needs to be Said to the do-gooder/antagonist.
I could almost see voting for Palin in 2012 on the grounds that this sorry ratfucking excuse for a republic, this savage, smirking, predatory empire deserves her. Bring on the Rapture, motherfuckers!
-- via RC
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Post #326,040
5/12/10 7:04:18 AM
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Which side in this example
was doing the browbeating?
I think you have the situation perfectly reversed in your head.
But since the authority in this case is telling the girl that God is offensive...well thats the right kind of freedom for you.
(God or flag, nothing in story to determine which is worse to her)
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #326,046
5/12/10 8:29:47 AM
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you are confused in CA learning islam in school
is not only acceptable but required, the kid was being admonished for getting an american flag anywhere near it
If we torture the data long enough, it will confess. (Ronald Coase, Nobel Prize for Economic Sciences, 1991)
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Post #326,047
5/12/10 8:37:18 AM
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that explains it then...
she should have written Allah Akbar on the flag so as to not be offensive :)
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #326,087
5/12/10 3:52:40 PM
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Re: Really
I never said it; I'm assuming that those words are what the teacher focused on.
Do you believe that the teacher thought that the American flag was offensive, or do you believe that the teacher thought that the words "God Bless America" were offensive?
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
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Post #326,092
5/12/10 4:21:02 PM
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doesn't really matter to me
either one is a mistake on the teachers part.
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #326,025
5/11/10 10:07:56 PM
5/11/10 10:12:14 PM
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Ebert's take.
http://rogerebert.su...OPINION/100509974
Funny how Breitbart doesn't mention that it apparently happened on May 5.
[edit:] (via Pharyngula - http://scienceblogs....han_a_bigot_i.php )
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #326,027
5/11/10 10:15:02 PM
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First story was posted then
thought that was obvious.
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #326,054
5/12/10 9:10:50 AM
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Paul Harvey time
The rest of the story....
ÂIf something wrong was done to the student, weÂll get to the bottom of that, Brusa said. ÂBut it may have been they were working on the Yellow Ribbon project, which sends care packages to military in war zones. One of the requirements is that there is no writing on the flags. If thatÂs the case, then thereÂs been a huge misunderstanding here and a lot of needless turmoil and grief
I had a feeling there was more to this.
Source http://www.thecalifo...p+may+be+baseless
I think the single most compelling piece of evidence for global warming is that Fox News viewers think it's a hoax.
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Post #326,055
5/12/10 9:16:44 AM
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Oh
So I'll be expecting Fox News and everyone who forwarded irate emails about this to follow up and tell everyone they got it wrong.
--
Drew
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Post #326,058
5/12/10 9:23:59 AM
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not really
you dont haul off and fuck over a little kid because she didnt understand the instructions
where a student was told not to draw Old Glory because it was Âoffensive,Â
I coach 12-13 yo girls, I examine what I say BEFORE I belch it out because they are VERY sensitive to nuance. If a teacher doesnt understand that she/he is in the wrong profession.
thanx,
bill
If we torture the data long enough, it will confess. (Ronald Coase, Nobel Prize for Economic Sciences, 1991)
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Post #326,059
5/12/10 9:34:20 AM
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um..in a word...(heh)...Amen.
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #326,061
5/12/10 9:47:38 AM
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a note from someone who lives in the area
from phyranglia
#296
Posted by: Markle Author Profile Page | May 12, 2010 8:07 AM
First, I think everybody except the school district behaved badly here. The tea baggers and right-wing radio worst of all for picking up the wrong battle. (edit: And by the way it turns out nobody was supposed to be wearing any flag shit at all. "American, Mexican or Estonian" according to that reporter.) If it was my kid and he showed up at breakfast wearing a flag shirt on May 5, I wouldn't have given it a second thought. If, however, I found out he planned to hang out with 4 of his friends dressed the same way, I'd tell him to change his shirt and check his bookbag on the way out the door as well.
However, as a lifetime resident of the San Francisco Bay Area, this is actually local news for me. Reading the comments above, I had to laugh out loud at this rending of souls over these poor downtrodden little Mexicans in freaking Morgan freaking Hill. You see Morgan Hill is a bedroom community for those who work in Silicon Valley and can afford to sacrifice a few miles commute for living amongst a bit more greenery. Sandwiched between one of the largest state parks, two of the largest county parks, and three golf/country clubs, Morgan Hill has a median household income of just shy of $100k, median family income is just short of $110K. If you want your kid to go to Live Oak HS, your mortgage banker won't quite have to write a check with two commas, but he will if you want your kid to be able to walk to school. Set aside about $2.5 million for that. You see it's surrounded by one of those country clubs and vineyards. This is a dispute between spoiled rich white punks and spoiled rich slightly-more-melanistic "victims-for-a-day".
There's something else going on amongst the kids because in the wider community, Cinco de Mayo is like St. Patrick's Day. Substitute mexican for irish in the old standby "everybody's irish for a day" and that's what it's like if you go by the park for a picnic or out to a bar. Supermarkets have specials on theme-specific items. Just like you'd expect when most Bay Area communities are anywhere from 25%-55% "hispanic or latino of any race" even in the gentrified areas.(Morgan Hill 28.5%; next door in San Martin, 40%; Gilroy, 54% and $70k mean household) Hell, Redwood City, one of the most expensive places to live in the Bay Area has more residents that hail from one small town outside Morelia, Michoacán than currently live in that small town in Michoacán. You'd be hard-pressed to get more than a mile from a mexicatessen here. And nobody will look at you strangely when you shop there, whatever your ancestry. Supermarkets stock up on masa near Christmas and stock Tamarindo year-round right next to Sprite. Mexican-American culture is part of everybody's Bay Area culture. You could exchange all of that for Asian(Japanese/Chinese/Hmong/Vietnamese/Indian/Pakistani) in many places too. Cupertino, for example is 45% asian(65% in the schools).
Oh yeah, and one of the Morgan Hill 5, Dominic Maciel? He's half hispanic himself. I don't know what's going on there.
If we torture the data long enough, it will confess. (Ronald Coase, Nobel Prize for Economic Sciences, 1991)
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Post #326,062
5/12/10 9:56:46 AM
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so this isn't newsworthy
because these are rich kids.
ok.
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #326,066
5/12/10 10:45:37 AM
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Rich is just one element
The other two:
* No flags of any kind
* Flag-wearing as a clique activity
The fact that the American flag is involved doesn't excuse dressing in a disruptive way.
---------------------------------------
I think it's perfectly clear we're in the wrong band.
(Tori Amos)
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Post #326,067
5/12/10 11:08:28 AM
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So now a flag shirt
has moved to the realm of shouting fire in a crowded movie house...or maybe just for the CA and NYC crowd...gang colors.
and was the "no flags of any kind" a rule posted in advance or a rule made up that morning by the administration?
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #326,068
5/12/10 11:47:16 AM
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More like Coke shirt on Pepsi day
Or was it the other way around.
I'm not saying this is right, I'm just trying to file it under the correct type of dumbassery. This is a school stupid, not politics stupid. The politics is just a maguffin.
I also strongly suspect there was some behavior that went along with the shirts. Projection on my part. At that age I wouldn't just have worn the shirt, I would have been a pest about it. I was a clever lad, so I probably would have managed to not break any actual rules or overtly disrespect anybody, but it would have been far from innocent. And I was one of the good kids.
---------------------------------------
I think it's perfectly clear we're in the wrong band.
(Tori Amos)
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Post #326,073
5/12/10 12:35:42 PM
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Pretty much agree, and started that way
giving California the weekly school stupid award, fully expecting that title to come back to FL quickly...but CA, much like the hero of Employee of the Week, earned 2 gold stars in a row :-)
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #326,069
5/12/10 12:13:03 PM
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Re: So now a flag shirt... how quickly we forget
http://www.americanh...1/2002_1_56.shtml
After his desecration conviction for wearing a flag shirt, Abbie Hoffman regretted Âthat I have only one shirt to give for my country. When he appeared on the television program The Merv Griffin Show wearing the infamous article, the network blacked out all images of him, although it allowed viewers to hear his voice.
If we torture the data long enough, it will confess. (Ronald Coase, Nobel Prize for Economic Sciences, 1991)
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Post #326,071
5/12/10 12:23:01 PM
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Context
Ebert gets it pretty right in his response: http://rogerebert.su...OPINION/100509974
His four thought experiments touch on the recent California case, but without the extra context. What context is that?
2006 -- http://www.highbeam....P1-123100628.html
SANTA CLARA, CA - MAY 05: Anti-immigration demonstrators hold signs and American flags during an anti-immigration rally May 5, 2006 in Santa Clara, California. Dozens of anti-immigration demonstrators held a rally as similar rallies ...
2007 -- http://www.seacoasto...505/NEWS/70505029
Minutemen rally in Concord a response to Cinco de Mayo
CONCORD, N.H. -- Local members of an illegal immigration watchdog group picketed the Statehouse Friday, calling their display of flag-waving, sign-holding and in some instances, costume-wearing, a response to the Mexican national holiday of Cinco de Mayo.
2010 -- http://imagine2050.n...on-cinco-de-mayo/
A posting on the website ArizonaMilitia.com this week stated:
Arizona Citizens Militia calls on Arizonans to celebrate ÂCinco de Ammo by asking everyone to purchase five boxes of ammunition on 5 May 2010
2010 -- http://chattahbox.co...gal-day%E2%80%99/
And right on cue, the Phoenix-based National Socialist Movement, a neo-nazi white supremacist group is sponsoring ÂReport An Illegal Day on the same day Cinco de Mayo is celebrated.
Those kids were being intentionally provocative, in a context where people are getting national press coverage suggesting buying ammo and reporting on suspected illegals. Where people calling themselves militias are openly calling for armed response to illegal immigration. Where a state legislature has just required that its police engage in racial profiling.
I'm not saying everyone protesting immigration is racist. I'm not saying everyone protesting Cinco de Mayo is racist. I'm not saying everyone supporting the kids who were told to remove the flag clothes is racist.
What I am saying is that there are a whole lot of people doing those things who are proudly racist. And the fact that none of the other heritage days Ebert mentioned gets protested strongly suggests that there's more racist sentiment in the opposition to Cinco de Mayo than most people would care to admit to themselves.
And on a lighter note -- http://www.mynorthwe...sid=318591&page=0
But the US also figured in this battle BECAUSE... we were fighting the Civil War at the time, and the South desperately wanted help from the French.
Which is why Abraham Lincoln in fact encouraged the Mexican army to confront the French on Cinco de Mayo and tie them down.
In other words, Cinco de Mayo commemorates a battle where Mexico AND the United States were ON THE SAME SIDE. Against the FRENCH.
--
Drew
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