IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New I can see you're still filtering.
Even after I referenced the law and its requirements.
Bill, it is >YOU< that doesn't understand how "things really work".

You can pass all the laws you want.

People will still break them.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's the fact.

And you continue to extend your examples to the entire landscape of industry (except of course the vaunted B&J) by insisting that I advocate >criminals< assist in writing laws and policy. (but I'm not supposed to notice that you're doing this...since I'm illiterate).
Bill, that is your original position. Shall I quote one of your posts back at you?

Here it is:
Part of my job is to write policy. In writing policies, I've found it very effective to have the worst offenders offer their advice on how the policy should be written. I ask very specific questions about their violations and how they would recommend the policy be changed to stop further violations or "rulebending".


I also pointed out the fact that a company had an employee and allowed him to partake in the drafting of a major treaty that effectively eliminated sale of very profitable products. Somehow this is less relevent than Ben & Jerry's exceeding government requirements...even though the act undertaken was, in essence, to draft stricter requirements than already existed...and doing so at considerable cost.
Actually, you said "coworker". And I never said that there weren't companies that would do that. >YOU< were the one that claimed I said that. I said the the companies in VIOLATION would not do that. Which, if you read your above quoted post, was what you said they would do.

But no company in your world would ever do such a thing.
Once again, Ben & Jerry's. A company that holds to higher standards than the government requires. My example. Yet you >STILL< keep trying to claim that I'm saying that NO companies would do that.

People, do I need to present >ANY< more evidence for mental filtering? Really? This is the 4TH time I've mentioned Ben & Jerry's and Bill >STILL< wants to claim that I say that NO company would do that.

Mental filtering, people. It real. It exists. Watch Bill and you will see it in action.

By the way. Drivers are not required to record and report the speeds they drive to the DMV. So if you want to use something as a comparison...try to find something a little better.
It's called an "analogy". You say the companies that violate EPA standards want to help toughen those standards. I say that this doesn't happen ANY PLACE ELSE. For an example, I said that speeders NEVER self-report themselves. And they don't.

Again, people who violate the rules do NOT work to toughen those rules.

On second thought. Don't bother. You're being combative with me just because it somehow inflates your sense of self. No one else here cares...or they would probably have posted by now.
Bill, >YOU< are the one who's job mysteriously changes from post to post.

>YOU< are the one that keeps trying to re-phrase my position. Even after I clarify it. Even after I give examples of how you're attempting to re-phrase it.

Bill, I really don't care what you think. I'm just illustrating how someone (you) with a pre-set agenda will filter any available "facts" to support your position.

I'm not going to convince you that you're wrong on this. You "know" you're right.

Even though I have years of experience in companies that also have to deal with the EPA. And I can NAME the companies I worked for. Your exact job is still undefined. Did you write policy or were you employed by a company that had to follow EPA policy?

Your filters are operating so fast that you've managed to convince yourself that your industry is COMPLETELY different than any other facet of life.

You can't explain this. You just KNOW that it is true.

Like I said, religion, filters, beliefs.
New No.
Fact - I work in a regulated industry. Yes...we make hazardous materials.

Fact - I write policies. Its line 3 under "Responsibilites" in my job description.

Fact - The person involved in the Protocol is a co-worker. 2 floors down.

Fact - EPA law requires >companies< to monitor and self report.

Your car analogy is a poor one because speeders are NOT required by law to monitor and self report.

I have used people who bend the rules successfully to offer advice and assistance in writing new policy to close those loopholes. They are not >criminals< because what they were doing was perfectly legit. It isn't any longer.

Again, people who violate the rules do NOT work to toughen those rules.


I work for a company that has assisted in tougheniing rules a great expense to itself. That would seem counter to your assertion.

I'm not filtering. You're doing your level best to misrepresent me.

Have fun. You are now truly on your own here.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
Expand Edited by bepatient March 15, 2002, 04:36:45 PM EST
New Strange......
URL:
[link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=31878|http://z.iwethey.or...tentid=31878]

Part of my job is to write policy. In writing policies, I've found it very effective to have the worst offenders offer their advice on how the policy should be written. I ask very specific questions about their violations and how they would recommend the policy be changed to stop further violations or "rulebending".
Please compare that with this quote taken from the immediately prior post.

Fact - I work in a regulated industry. Yes...we make hazardous
materials.

Fact - I write policies. Its line 3 under "Responsibilites" in my job
description.

Fact - The person involved in the Protocol is a co-worker. 2
floors down.

Fact - EPA law requires >companies< to monitor and self
report.
So, you're writing policy for your own company and you think that the wordst violators in your own company can give you good input on writing that policy?

Here's a term for you....

Masterbation.

Who gives a FUCK what your INTERNAL policies are and how they're generated?!?

Your car analogy is a poor one because speeders are NOT required by law to monitor and self report.
That is true. But that wasn't the point I was making. My point was that people who break the rules do NOT report themselves.

The speeders was an easy analogy.

Since you seemed to have trouble with that (and still seem to) I gave you TWO examples of companies that LLIED on their REQUIRED reports to the EPA.

Violators do NOT report their violations.

Even if they are REQUIRED to.

I have used people who bend the rules successfully to offer advice and assistance in writing new policy to close those loopholes.
Do you UNDERSTAND why I said that was masterbation? Do you? No one >CARES< what your INTERNAL policies are! You don't have any AUTHORITY over anyone else.

What you do or do not do has NO IMPACT on what other companies do.

They are not >criminals< because what they were doing was perfectly legit. It isn't any longer.
You see? This is where the confusion comes in.

You say >YOU< re-wrote the policy to change a previously LEGAL act into an ILLEGAL one.

But you do NOT have that authority NOR is that the office you hold.

Yet you >STILL< claim to have done that.

I've put up the two companies I've worked for. I still don't see you doing the same.

You're operating under another masterbation fantasy, Bill. You did NOT do what you claimed you did.

Again, people who violate the rules do NOT work to toughen those rules.


I work for a company that has assisted in tougheniing rules a great expense to itself. That would seem counter to your assertion.
Okay, let me put this in very small words for you......

Are you saying that your company was in violation of EPA policy?

Yes/No?

Think >VERY< carefully about your answer there. You know what happens if you answer "yes".

If not, then my point (allow me to quote it back to you "Again, people who violate the rules do NOT work to toughen those rules.") is valid as your company did NOT meet the criteria for that statement (note the part about "violate the rules").

Now, if your company did NOT violate the rules, then your company does NOT match my criteria and, once again, you have proven my point about your inability to read with comprehension (due to the vast quantity of filters you have running in your head).

If your company DID violate the EPA rules (well, well, what was that about "moral" companies the other day?) then >YOU< did NOTHING to strengthen the EPA rules, only your INTERNAL policies.

Either way, your original hypothesis has been disproven (based upon this example).

Unless your company DID violate the EPA policy AND self-reported it AND worked to toughen the EPA's policy.

If so, please provide the name of your company for verification. You seem more than a bit confused on whether you write EPA policy or not and whether your company is/was in violation or not. In fact, your "facts" seem to change from post to post.

Not that I would EVER doubt your veracity.

Never ever.
New Nope. You can't read.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New When pressed for actual facts.....
Bill Patient will (as most Republicans) run and hide.

I gave the names of both environmental companies I worked for.

Bill refuses to name the company he works for.

Bill also refuses to state whether said company was actually in violation of EPA policy or was not.

Bill Patient, a model Republican and working for a moral company.





(I'll just bookmark this thread for reference in future discussions, okay, Bill?)
New Sure...no sweat.
We won't be having any.

And I'm not a Republican.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
Expand Edited by bepatient March 16, 2002, 10:20:09 PM EST
New Why so fact aversive?
What are you afraid of?

Why can I detail my experiences and you try to hide behind a veil of secret ancient wisdom?

Hmmmmmmm???????

What are you trying to hide?

And I'm not a Republican.
Oh, sorry, I really meant "conservative compassionate".

Not "Republican".

Never "Republican".

Or whatever you want to call yourself these days.

Looks like a
Walks like a
Quacks like a
New this space left blank
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
Expand Edited by bepatient March 17, 2002, 12:25:55 PM EST
New Again, why are you afraid of the facts?
Why can't you answer a simple question?

Hmmmmm?

Claim illiteracy all you want.

But it's hard to read when you won't write the answer.

Does this make my third request for a response?

You fear is what makes you weak.
New Clarification please.
In my world, (a place requiring a much more Left-jaded field of vision than I suspect you're capable of ;0),
a person who knowingly violates "the spirit of the law" is as culpable as some one who violates the law literally.

You seem to be here:

>>They are not >criminals< because what they were doing was perfectly legit.

drawing a distinction that I, and I suspect Brandioch, does not draw.
New Technically not criminals.
But I'm still wondering why someone who seeks to use a loophole to advantage his/her company would work to close said loophole.
New That is indeed a fascinating notion.
New Perhaps competing companies are better at working a loop...
hole. In other words, "This rule would hurt us, but it will hurt XYZ a lot more".

Is you deviousness mode switch turned off? :)
Alex

"Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962)
New Possibly.
But it requires a great deal of knowledge of your competitor's business.
     White House: Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. - (Silverlock) - (88)
         The part I don't understand..... - (Brandioch) - (86)
             My lack of understanding is different - (Silverlock) - (85)
                 Here's the theory - (drewk) - (1)
                     Good insight -NT - (SpiceWare)
                 Dates, names, topics of discussion - (bepatient) - (82)
                     We do NOT have a right to know. - (mmoffitt) - (80)
                         Well golly... - (bepatient) - (78)
                             Exactly how stupid are these executives? - (mmoffitt) - (76)
                                 The policy is a part of the public record. - (bepatient) - (75)
                                     Sorry, thought that was rhetorical. - (mmoffitt) - (72)
                                         Well then... - (bepatient) - (71)
                                             Huh? How does that follow? - (mmoffitt) - (70)
                                                 Are you actually... - (bepatient) - (69)
                                                     You mean.... - (Brandioch) - (1)
                                                         No. I don't. -NT - (bepatient)
                                                     I knew the bias would come out if I waited long enough. - (mmoffitt) - (66)
                                                         That's not the problem - (drewk) - (12)
                                                             I don't see the problem. - (Brandioch) - (11)
                                                                 During the years when the dems had the house - (boxley) - (10)
                                                                     If you accept what they hand you, you deserve what you get. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (8)
                                                                         each according to my needs of their abilities? -NT - (boxley) - (7)
                                                                             No. each according to THEIR needs ;-) -NT - (mmoffitt) - (6)
                                                                                 who decides? commisar=ceo same diff :) -NT - (boxley) - (5)
                                                                                     How about letting me decide? :-) -NT - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                                                                         equals each according to my needs of their abilities :) -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                                                                                             No, I am more equal than you are :) -NT - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                                                 thats why (communism-people=works)(communism+people=doesnt) -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                                     How do you know? It's never been tried. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                     That's why we should do it in public. - (Brandioch)
                                                         Absolutely, completely and uttlerly wrong. - (bepatient) - (5)
                                                             So, part of your job is accommodation. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                                 Bzzzt...wrong again. - (bepatient)
                                                             And in your world, criminals write the laws? - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                 Why do I bother? - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                                     Crime is not "advice". - (Brandioch)
                                                         Keeping my example...and to illustrate other answer. - (bepatient) - (46)
                                                             Counter example. - (Brandioch)
                                                             You want to "discuss" this? - (mmoffitt) - (44)
                                                                 applause - (Brandioch) - (7)
                                                                     Real example - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                                                                         Good example. - (Brandioch) - (5)
                                                                             Well said. Concur completely. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                             Do you have reading problems? - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                                                                                 No worse than your's. - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                                     One of us has more free time... - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                                                         Full circle. - (Brandioch)
                                                                 How are you going to know about the problem? - (bepatient) - (35)
                                                                     Again, an interesting world you live in. - (Brandioch) - (33)
                                                                         Not much of a reader are you. - (bepatient) - (32)
                                                                             You say "balance". - (Brandioch) - (31)
                                                                                 I'll try once. - (Ric Locke) - (30)
                                                                                     And what color is the sky in your world? - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                     Higher speeds cause more deaths. - (Brandioch) - (28)
                                                                                         And you have never seen... - (a6l6e6x) - (27)
                                                                                             The order of those events is the key. - (Brandioch) - (26)
                                                                                                 Who do you think monitors the laws? - (bepatient) - (25)
                                                                                                     The eco-freaks do. - (Brandioch) - (24)
                                                                                                         Why do I think they do? - (bepatient) - (23)
                                                                                                             You use that phrase, but I do not think you understand it. - (Brandioch) - (22)
                                                                                                                 You don't know what you're talking about. - (bepatient) - (21)
                                                                                                                     Ah, the old "I have secret wisdom and you don't" ploy. - (Brandioch) - (20)
                                                                                                                         Courtesy request - (ben_tilly)
                                                                                                                         Ah...I see. - (bepatient) - (18)
                                                                                                                             Ah, since I slammed your "secret wisdom of the ancients"... - (Brandioch) - (17)
                                                                                                                                 Just applying your "logic" - (bepatient) - (16)
                                                                                                                                     Another successful application of filtering. - (Brandioch) - (15)
                                                                                                                                         I can see... - (bepatient) - (14)
                                                                                                                                             I can see you're still filtering. - (Brandioch) - (13)
                                                                                                                                                 No. - (bepatient) - (12)
                                                                                                                                                     Strange...... - (Brandioch) - (6)
                                                                                                                                                         Nope. You can't read. -NT - (bepatient) - (5)
                                                                                                                                                             When pressed for actual facts..... - (Brandioch) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                                 Sure...no sweat. - (bepatient) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                                     Why so fact aversive? - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                                         this space left blank -NT - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                             Again, why are you afraid of the facts? - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                                                                     Clarification please. - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                         Technically not criminals. - (Brandioch) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                             That is indeed a fascinating notion. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                                                             Perhaps competing companies are better at working a loop... - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                 Possibly. - (Brandioch)
                                                                     You changed your hypothesis. - (mmoffitt)
                                     Hmmmm..... - (Brandioch)
                                     Well..it does happen with ever administration... - (Simon_Jester)
                             Rant for rant... - (jb4)
                         Just ask JacksonLee - (boxley)
                     I say they should release the names... - (marlowe)
         We all know that the President is but a mear puppet - (nking)

LYNX-tested and approved!
156 ms