It took us a little while, but we got there! :-D

Post #319,593 by static 1/5/10 6:57:52 PM Reply	It took us a little while, but we got there! :-D Evangelical and Charismatic/Pentecostal groups have been loud and proud about taking the "Christian" label... and the result is that Catholics call themselves "Catholic" first and "Christian" second. It's the other side of many Protestants seeing Catholicism as much more different from them than merely another denomination down the road. Wade. Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers? A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
Post #319,600 by Another Scott 1/5/10 10:51:51 PM Reply	I may be wrong, but I think you're not quite right. I think the difference you believe is present between Catholics and Protestants that call themselves "Christian" first aren't as great as you believe. I attended many churches in my youth - Southern Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, and probably a couple others. I've attended Catholic mass a couple of times. http://en.wikipedia....ass_%28liturgy%29 Each denomination has their own rituals and traditions, their own emphasis on what they think is most important, but ultimately they're all Christian even if they can have (nearly or actually) violent disagreements. Political preachers who like to demonize others have made up many stories about Catholics that simply aren't true. Over here, one can see many different church services on TV on Sundays. It must be similar down under. Tape a Catholic service sometime and check it out. :-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #319,606 by static 1/6/10 2:26:11 AM Reply	Quite so. For some reason, I was playing up the differences. But there are more similarities than differences. This is known: Ecumenical efforts have always found it fairly straightforward to get mainstream Protestants together, and more work, but not a lot more work to get Catholics involved, too. And Orthodox is a little harder again. Of course, this is a potted summary of a summary of a summary... :-/ As far as basic basic basic theology goes, one of the biggest stumbling point is the question of ultimate authority. Catholics put the Pope above the Bible. Protestants don't. In middle-class suburbia (where I live and have grown up), most Protestant churches are remarkably similar, as are the more relaxed Catholic services. A church I used to attend had periodic combined churches with most of the others in the area. The combined size meant the charismatic churches tended to run things, as they usually know how to run services that size. But attempts to included the Catholics always stumbled over, of all things, song selection: they just don't know the same worship songs and hymns as everyone else. If we could have solved that, I think they would have willingly, if perhaps a bit bemusedly, joined in. Wade. Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers? A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
Post #319,618 by Another Scott 1/6/10 8:41:03 AM Reply	Again, I think you're relying on what "authorities" say... As far as basic basic basic theology goes, one of the biggest stumbling point is the question of ultimate authority. Catholics put the Pope above the Bible. Protestants don't. You're using very loaded language in your posts, though you may not realize it. One of the defining characteristics of almost all Protestant denominations since Luther is rejection of the authority of the Pope. (I'm tempted to throw in a Dreaded Car Analogy here, but I don't think it's necessary.) In a real sense, all Christian denominations ultimately put their leadership "above" the Bible even if they claim that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. They pick and choose what to stress and what to downplay. Baptists emphasize the importance of baptism more than Lutherans; etc. All religions that rely on sacred texts also rely on authorities to interpret them. The Southern Baptists have a convention which comes up with pronouncements on various religious and social topics. They have had leaders that say things like "women should submit to their husbands". More here: http://www.sbc.net/a...ionstatements.asp Is a SB who is devout putting their leadership "above" the Bible? Again, see for yourself what Catholics believe and practice in Mass. Don't take the word of critics or those who have left that church - too often they have an agenda of making Catholics look bad. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #319,643 by static 1/6/10 3:50:29 PM Reply	I see. And my attempts at simplification to show that there is a difference at a very low level without having to argue exactly what that difference is seems to be wasted. Your list of differences is correct, of course: Luther's rejection of the Papal authority was a rejection that the Pope can make edicts that overrule scripture. You're using very loaded language in your posts, ... Could you please explain how I am doing that. Wade. Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers? A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
Post #319,646 by Another Scott 1/6/10 5:56:24 PM Reply	As Box says... there are things said about Catholics over here that may not match your experiences. Sorry if I'm rubbing you the wrong way on this topic. I understand that you're trying to be careful. :-) There's a very long history of Protestant antagonism against Catholics here. I probably don't need to review the long history. A brief flavor can be found here: http://en.wikipedia....ed_States#History When you said that Catholics put 'the Pope above the Bible' or 'Catholics consider themselves Catholic first and Christian second', that is very close to some of the anti-Catholic things that I heard growing up: "Catholics aren't Christian. They don't pray to God, they pray to their priest who prays to his bishop who prays to his cardinal who prays to the Pope." Catholic politicians over here are questioned all the time about whether their loyalty is to the US or to the Pope, or whether their votes are compatible with the Church's doctrines. Mainline Protestants don't get such scrutiny. And the things Box mentioned, and so forth. We all understand that you're not meaning to cause offense. And I don't think most of us are taking offense. It's just that some of the comments you're making about what other people have said about the Catholic church in your church seem to be easily taken as anti-Catholic in a US context. HTH a little. Cheers, Scott.
Post #319,650 by drook 1/6/10 6:47:17 PM Reply	Oh yeah? Well my invisible sky fairy can beat up your invisible sky fairy with one arm tied behind him! -- Drew
Post #319,652 by boxley 1/6/10 7:05:12 PM Reply	not hardly as a short story about armageddon where lucifer wins the final battle a shocked cleric goes "that isnt what was written in scripture!" and the devil replies "I didnt write that propaganda" thanx, bill
Post #319,655 by static 1/6/10 7:20:46 PM Reply	Yes, it helps. sigh I've been tripped by cultural differences. :-/ Thanks for the heads-up. I can honestly say I have not seen or experienced anti-Catholic sentiment in Australian Protestant churches. The closest would be pop-vox responses in the mass media to the Catholic Archbishop of Sydney. I have seen what could cause it, but that was when I was eight years old and involved a classmate in school who acted like catholics were superior to everyone... I really wasn't thinking I would be offensive when I posted. They were intended to be dry, theological observations, some derived from serious inter-faith efforts. Wade. Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers? A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
Post #319,623 by boxley 1/6/10 9:38:10 AM Reply	incorrect the catholic does not put the pope above the bible. It puts the pope as the sole interpreter of the bible. Protestants believe it is self determined what the bible means. This leads to praying with snakes and speaking in tongues and Koresh, and Jones. Just for grins go to a mass sometime. You wont burn in protestant hell for it :-)
Post #319,642 by static 1/6/10 3:42:56 PM Reply	We're talking past each other. That's what I said. It's a shame when the same language can be used by two people to misunderstand each other. >:-( Wade. Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers? A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
Post #319,644 by boxley 1/6/10 4:50:44 PM Reply	Re: We're talking past each other. sorry about that. Common misconception over here, prods think that the pope issues non biblical marching orders and catholics dont use a real bible. thanx, bill
Post #319,616 by folkert 1/6/10 7:14:43 AM Reply	What about the the whole reason.. There have been so many "splits" in the Baptist Church, the Reformed Church, the Presbyterian Church, the Methodist Church, <insert other churches> These have all gone through huge upheavals when something as controversial as letting women have their hair down. Or letting Gay/lesbian members participate in service proceeding (communion in one case). Or just acknowledging that Gays/Lesbian exist and need help... Simply stated, it only takes one preacher/priest/pastor taking offense/exception and steering his congregation to split and form a new branch of the church

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