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New not just gitmo
the industrial prison industry is filled with more filling to come of some of the highest incarceration rates in the world. 4-12 years for coke residue in a pipe is a balanced rational sentence? Not in anyt sane society. Now when these prisons are built and not filled these folks head to the legislatures to get customers. Note the judges if philly, the alaskan legislators who were convicted for doing just that. Now the feds will be lobbied for just a few more thought crimes and voila, everyone gets a number
New Grrr
I accept that those evil bastards in those cases are doing exactly what what you fear, at least as the 1st stepping stone in the slippery slope.

Yes, I give a watered down lecture to my kids, basically giving your viewpoint.

And yes, the disparate sentences for crack VS powder coke seem hugely discriminatory. Do you have any direct experience with these drugs? While I am a proponent of no restriction for adults for anything, I gotta tell you, crack beats heroin (by FAR) as incredibly damaging, not just to an individual, but to blocks, neghborhoods, it's fucking incredible. It sweeps like wildfire.

I'd consider life imprisonment for an adult who gives a kid (choose a number, 18 it fine with me) crack. Really. If an adult gives it to someone else's kids, let the parent decide if they want the death penalty.

My TL grew up on a block of over 100 kids on it. NE philly. It was swarming with friendly activity. Of course, it was a bit isolated, as most enclaves are.

And then Grandma crack moved in. She has 2 daughters she was pimping out, and a nice little crack business going. Of course, no one knew that then.

Within a couple of years, the block was destroyed. Most of the kids were smoking crack. Lots of deaths. Yes, some jail as well, supporting the prison/industrial system.

I've done almost every drug (ya know, that people play with) known to man, at least in the 70s. I know a few isolated deaths in that time frame. I almost died. In each case, a lesson was learned, and it was unlikely that's other members of my druggie community would then follow the level of usage.

Crack doesn't work that way. Let be a reward for living until 18, but let it be controlled. If you still make the decision to use it, fine, but don't let it near the kids. Ok, off the drug rant.

The problem is that you either see a near term disaster (on the total political situation) that I don't, and are in the FUCK IT ALL, RISK EVERYTHING (and maybe you don't feel you are risking much at this point), and RESTART mode, or you are a serious idealistic long term thinker and don't care about the intense near term pain and death, since you feel the end result will simply be worth it.

Also, you are a competent survivalist. In the words of Rambo's colonel, you can eat things that will make a billy goat puke. So if a total shitstorm happens, you might actually end up on top. Which probably colors your perspective a bit.

Either way, I can't back your direction. My life is pretty damn good (not monetarily, just finally in a good place emotionally/family), which means my risk aversion goes up, and I'd rather ride out what I see, working from within, than nuking and rebuilding.
Expand Edited by crazy Jan. 11, 2010, 07:12:27 AM EST
New nope crack is good but compared to the almost
ejaculation that heroin gives when intraduced via needle mixed with mda commonly known as X is nothing. Not trying to give anyone any ideas, but when the big C sez I have 6 months I will be alternating that with speedballs.
Of course all of the above is just conjecture on my part. :-)
On your experience may vary discussion. A dear friend Frank Rising bought a gram of coke every weekend as pussy bait from the middle of world war 2 until the late 1980's. A master thief, assistant of hookers and owner of after hour joints survivor of lung cancer, discovered crack circa 1988. This man was a paragon of ignoring temptations did an 8ball a day until he croaked in 1991. Not a pretty drug.
It is an easy drug to quit. Much like booze if you dont have that first hit off the pipe you dont need a second.
smoking tobacco is more difficult in my uneducated opinion
New Agreed, but
Needles cross a line for most druggies. Until that point, you can live in denial and say I'm not THAT bad. That's why hilbilly heroin (oxys) was a big deal, since it allowed people to chew and get ALMOST the same high, and still think you are OK

So it really means FAR less people take the 1st hit.

Also, it takes far longer to die on crack, it is far more social (a lot easier to share a pipe than a needle!), which means it grows via network effect. Heroin is a 1 on 1 type of thing when being shared. You have to trust the person more, since you may nod off and they could rob/kill you. Far less chance of that happening on crack.

So, when talking about individual affect, heroin is more likely to kill you in the short term, but crack will kill far more people.
New Contaigion vs. mortality ... I'm sure CDC has the figures
--

Drew
New druggies have a line? ROFL!
back when I was a kid people had fit kits
     Is he delusional or is he just a pathological liar? - (mmoffitt) - (40)
         .... - (beepster) - (5)
             Let me know when the full transcript is available. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                 If you'll let me know when your arms get tired. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                     Heh. Transcript here. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                         Except.. O. and proofreaders really ought to know the word - (Ashton) - (1)
                             Of course. But it's probably a lost cause. - (Another Scott)
         Definitely delusional. - (Mycroft_Holmes_Iv)
         Glenn Greenwald's take - (Ashton) - (3)
             "And a few dozen other insoluble problems" - (dmcarls) - (2)
                 wait till the 75 year draught hits then watch the fun -NT - (boxley)
                 In the "thou sayest" bin -- - (Ashton)
         Nah, a political liar - (crazy) - (28)
             Thank you - (beepster)
             Heh. - (mmoffitt) - (17)
                 Silly comparison - (crazy) - (16)
                     If not the gulag, maybe Gitmo? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (15)
                         Hmm - (crazy) - (14)
                             You tell me. Anyone die at Gitmo? - (mmoffitt) - (13)
                                 When did you sneak back in? - (pwhysall) - (2)
                                     When he got out of gitmo - (crazy)
                                     Thought I'd see how many were still Big O believers. ;0) - (mmoffitt)
                                 Sure, why not - (crazy) - (8)
                                     not just gitmo - (boxley) - (5)
                                         Grrr - (crazy) - (4)
                                             nope crack is good but compared to the almost - (boxley) - (3)
                                                 Agreed, but - (crazy) - (2)
                                                     Contaigion vs. mortality ... I'm sure CDC has the figures -NT - (drook)
                                                     druggies have a line? ROFL! - (boxley)
                                     Sense of scale. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                         Read above post I just did -NT - (crazy)
                                 You need smileys - (crazy)
             This guy says it quite well - (crazy) - (8)
                 Disagree. I think he misses him completely. - (Another Scott) - (6)
                     Ehh - (crazy) - (5)
                         I don't know how he can be more clear. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                             Your concept of bottom line is different from mine - (crazy) - (3)
                                 No worries. Don't let my whining get to you. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                     on the other hand, having no policy stances - (boxley) - (1)
                                         Or submarined -NT - (crazy)
                 Agree with it, except it's too long. - (mmoffitt)

Got Snow, Greg?
59 ms