Boeing Boeing

Post #31,803 by nking 3/12/02 10:12:43 AM Reply	Boeing Boeing Could the plane have crashed near the Pentagon, snapped off its wings and part of it hit the Pentagon? "Will work for fair salary and benefits, seeking company with integrity."
Post #31,833 by marlowe 3/12/02 12:25:09 PM Reply	The wing damage is there. Look closer. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Truth is that which is the case. Accept no substitutes. If competence is considered "hubris" then may I and my country always be as "arrogant" as we can possibly manage.
Post #31,865 by inthane-chan 3/12/02 2:40:04 PM Reply	Better explanation. My guess is the plane hit the ground just before the Pentagon itself - the wings snapped off from the dramatic deacceleration, and basically disentigrated. Now, that much raw metal moving forward will still do damage, so loon just ahead of where the wings are "templated" on the picture, and you'll see a fair amount of damage on the building. The main fuselage slid forward into the building, causing massive damage, but it was ablated by the first "segment" of the Pentagon, but hey, that's how the Pentagon was designed! It's got multiple rings in order to HELP ablate the damage from any explosive event... And remember, it was built during World War 2, the era of the Kamikaze pilot, so I'm certain they took the possibility of a plane crashing into it... "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #31,884 by Ashton 3/12/02 3:53:43 PM Reply	Also.. "the dog that did not bark in the night" Sherlock Holmes, Silver Blaze or Silverblaze Following the cockamamie logic of the Froggies who cretinated this site: W.T.F. did that plane go? and wasn't a DC Official's wife in phone-conv. with her husband.. until that conv. ended and an er 'event' occurred at the Pentagon? Etc. {sheesh} Lee Harvey Oswald had been resuscitated at the funeral home... He is nothing if not patient: and flew that plane under the radar at wavetop altitude; on to the secret Pacific Island jointly operated by OPEC and Bushie and Cheney (originally purchased by Prescott Bush - in contemplation of just what his future spawn might do to the world.. if they only had a place to stash the loot). That's MY story, and if you don't like it yer a pimp for [oil] and fer blister-packed Fart machines. Ashton Ltd The Truth is Our Most Important Product How ya want it packaged today?
Post #31,885 by Arkadiy 3/12/02 4:03:10 PM Reply	Recent reconstruction That segment just completed a very extensive reconstruction. One of the goals of it was to harden the building's frame against just such an accident (Discover or TLC had a documentary on that).
Post #31,944 by Another Scott 3/12/02 9:41:19 PM Reply	Witness accounts. Some calculations. Hi, This seems to be a reasonable place to put this... According to [link\|http://www.janes.com/aerospace/civil/news/jawa/boeing_767.shtml\|Jane's], a 767 is around 180 feet long (160 - 200 feet depending on the version). The outer wall of the outer ring of the Pentagon is [link\|http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/pentagon/facts.html\|921 feet long]. [link\|http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Sep2001/010915-D-6570C-004.jpg\|Illustration of the path of the plane] that hit the Pentagon. Note that it penetrated the 3 outer rings. [link\|http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Sep2001/010915-D-6570C-009.jpg\|Illustration of destroyed and damaged columns] illustrating the plane's path in the building. [link\|http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Sep2001/t09152001_t915evey.html\|Briefing transcript]: Q: That seems to indicate that it came to rest in ring C, the nose cone. Evey: Let me talk to that, because you've asked a number of questions already about the extent of penetration, et cetera. This is an overhead of the building. The point of penetration was right here, and we blocked that out to show that's the area of collapse. The plane actually penetrated through the E ring, C ring -- excuse me -- E ring, D ring, C ring. This area right here is what we call A-E Drive. And unlike other rings in the building, it's actually a driveway that circles the building inside, between the B and the C ring. The nose of the plane just barely broke through the inside of the C ring, so it was extending into A-E Drive a little bit. So that's the extent of penetration of the aircraft. Q: It broke through which one? Evey: The rings are E, D, C, B and A. Between B and C is a driveway that goes around the Pentagon. It's called A-E Drive. The airplane traveled in a path about like this, and the nose of the aircraft broke through this innermost wall of C ring into A-E Drive. Q: One thing that's confusing -- if it came in the way you described, at an angle, why then are not the wings outside? I mean, the wings would have shorn off. The tail would have shorn off. And yet there's apparently no evidence of the aircraft outside the E ring. Evey: Actually, there's considerable evidence of the aircraft outside the E ring. It's just not very visible. When you get up close -- actually, one of my people happened to be walking on this sidewalk and was right about here as the aircraft approached. It came in. It clipped a couple of light poles on the way in. He happened to hear this terrible noise behind him, looked back, and he actually -- he's a Vietnam veteran -- jumped prone onto the ground so the aircraft would not actually -- he thinks it (would have) hit him; it was that low. On its way in, the wing clipped. Our guess is an engine clipped a generator. We had an emergency temporary generator to provide life-safety emergency electrical power, should the power go off in the building. The wing actually clipped that generator, and portions of it broke off. There are other parts of the plane that are scattered about outside the building. None of those parts are very large, however. You don't see big pieces of the airplane sitting there extending up into the air. But there are many small pieces. And the few larger pieces there look like they are veins out of the aircraft engine. They're circular. Q: Would you say that the plane, since it had a lot of fuel on it at the impact, and the fact that there are very small pieces, virtually exploded in flames when it tore into the building? I mean, since there are not large pieces of the wings laying outside, did it virtually explode? Evey: I didn't see it. My people who did see it enter the building describe it as entering the building and then there being flames coming out immediately afterwards. Whether you describe it as an explosion or not, people I talk to who were there, some called it an explosion. Others called it a large fire. I'm not sure. I wasn't there, sir. It's just a guess on my part. I haven't been able to find dimensions between the various rings of the Pentagon, but from the illustration and the known length of the plane, I think a reasonable estimate of the penetration into the building is 200 - 300'. I've heard an estimate that the 767 was travelling at 450 mph (though that might have been the estimate of the WTC planes' speed). Let's assume uniform deceleration (probably a very poor assumption, but it'll give us a ballpark figure.) The speed of a body under uniform acceleration can be described by: V(final)^2 = V(initial)^2 + 2 * A * D Where V's are velocities, A is the acceleration, and D is the distance travelled subject to the acceleration. 450 mph = 660 feet per second. In our case, V(final) = 0, V(initial) = 660 feet per second and D = 300 feet. Then A = -726 feet per second per second. 1 g = 32 feet per second per second. So the 767 underwent an acceleration of about -23 g's if it travelled 300 feet in about 0.91 seconds. If it travelled 200 feet, then the acceleration was about -34 g's. It's not surprising that so little of the plane was left after impact. Cheers, Scott.
Post #31,953 by Ric Locke 3/12/02 11:04:54 PM Reply	Airplane pieces One thing I'd like to add to Scott's excellent post -- Airplanes are fragile. This is a consequence of their having to be built as light as possible; the major part of the structure of almost any airplane is sheet metal, aluminum, from .030 - .090 inches ( .75 - 2.25 mm) thick. Those are eggshells we ride around in, folks. The only exception is the engines, and in the case of a 767 or other modern airliner, the size you see is deceptive -- the engine core, the part that makes the power, isn't much bigger than a typical large V8 auto engine, and all the rest of that cylindrical structure is a hollow shell like the fuselage is. If you've ever seen a crash site, one of the things that will strike you immediately is that the airplane's in shards, pieces the size of your hand in many cases. In the late '50s we had a bomber being refueled that exploded in the air not far from my house; wreckage hunts were popular for months afterward, aided by the fact that the Air Force would send somebody to tell you what that part was if you turned it in [very exciting to Fifties kids]. The typical piece was less than a foot across! Planes that hit the ground are typically moving relatively slowly, because the pilots are trying hard not to hit the ground. The rare ones that do go in at high speed just flat fragment. As here. Regards, Ric
Post #279,100 by Andrew Grygus 3/21/07 5:44:41 PM Reply	That aluminum is not only thin . . . it is also hard - as hard as you can make aluminum. That means brittle like glass. An airplane that hits a building at high speed, especially a building that had recently been reinforced, simply turns into confetti. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]

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