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New How do you overshoot a whole city?

Two Northwest Airlines pilots who overshot their destination by 150 miles (240 kilometers) before turning back should have had numerous warnings as they approached and passed Minneapolis: cockpit displays, controllers trying repeatedly to reach, the city lights twinkling below.

Yet the pilots didn't discover their mistake until a flight attendant in the cabin contacted them by intercom, said a source close to the investigation who wasn't authorized to talk publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity. By that time, the plane was over Eau Claire, Wisconsin, and the pilots had been out of communication with air traffic controllers for over an hour.

The crew told authorities they were distracted during a heated discussion over airline policy, the Federal Aviation Administration said. But federal officials are investigating whether pilot fatigue might be to blame.

NTSB spokesman Keith Holloway said Thursday investigators hadn't yet questioned the pilots and didn't know whether it was possible they had fallen asleep. The pilots have been suspended from flying by their airline while it, too, investigates.

The plane, en route from San Diego with 144 passengers and a crew of five, passed over its destination of Minneapolis at 37,000 feet (11,280 meters) just before 9 p.m. EDT Wednesday (0100 GMT Thursday). Contact with controllers wasn't established until 14 minutes later, according to the National Transportation Safety Board, which is investigating the incident.



source: http://www.chicagotr...n,0,6664584.story




"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."

-- E.L. Doctorow
New was it a male and female in the cockpit?
New Well, everyone does call Minnesota "Flyover country"
New It's not that hard
especially given the altitude and speed a jet liner flies at compared to say a Cessna.

But the real question is how long were they unreachable. That's bad. Commercial Airlines fly IFR - they're controlled by the tower. They have to respond to tower requests in changes of altitude/speed/direction (they're flying too fast to do "See and Avoid")

We'll soon know. (Lovely voice recorders. :-) )
New No voice recorder except last 30 minutes.
If I screwed up, I'd made sure I was at least an hour past due before turning around and then I wouldn't have to worry about the voice recorder contradicting my story.
New If the fighters had been scrambled it woulda be worse.
If they didn't have the presence of mind to realize they'd overshot the airport, I doubt that they had the presence of mind to recall how long the flight recorder tape was. Maybe, but I doubt it. I assume that they turned around as soon as they could once they realized what had happened.

Presumably it would have been much worse for the flight crew if they had gotten a fighter escort. "No, we weren't sleeping. We were just talking and ... Sorry about getting NORAD involved..." :-/

It'll be interesting to see how this turns out. Fallows has been keeping an eye on it (he's a pilot and had an interesting experience in South Dakota) - http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/ - and more harrowing incidents recently.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Pilot that overshot airport: Crew wasn't napping

The first officer of the Northwest Airlines jet that missed its destination by 150 miles says there was no fight in the cockpit, neither he nor the captain had fallen asleep and the passengers were never in any danger.

But in an interview with The Associated Press two days after he and a colleague blew past their destination as air traffic controlled tried frantically to reach them, pilot Richard Cole would not say just what it was that led to them to forget to land Flight 188.

"It was not a serious event, from a safety issue," Cole said in front of his Salem, Ore., home. "I would tell you more, but I've already told you way too much."

Air traffic controllers and pilots tried for more than an hour Wednesday night to contact Cole and the flight's captain, Timothy B. Cheney, of Gig Harbor, Wash., using radio, cell phone and data messages. On the ground, concerned officials alerted National Guard jets to prepare to chase the airliner from two locations, though none of the military planes left the runway.

Cole would not discuss why it took so long for the pilots to respond to radio calls, "but I can tell you that airplanes lose contact with the ground people all the time. It happens. Sometimes they get together right away; sometimes it takes awhile before one or the other notices that they are not in contact."

A police report released Friday said the pilots passed breathalyzer tests and were apologetic after the flight. The report also said that the crew indicated they had been having a heated discussion about airline policy.

But aviation safety experts and other pilots were deeply skeptical they could have become so distracted by shop talk that they forgot to land an airplane carrying 144 passengers. The most likely possibility, they said, is that the pilots simply fell asleep somewhere along their route from San Diego.

"It certainly is a plausible explanation," said Bill Voss, president of the Flight Safety Foundation in Alexandria, Va.

Unfortunately, the cockpit voice recorder may not tell the tale.

New recorders retain as much as two hours of cockpit conversation and other noise, but the older model aboard Northwest's Flight 188 includes just the last 30 minutes — only the very end of Wednesday night's flight after the pilots realized their error over Wisconsin and were heading back to Minneapolis.

[...]

Voss said a special concern was that the many safety checks built into the aviation system to prevent incidents like this one — or to correct them quickly — apparently were ineffective until the very end. Not only couldn't air traffic controllers and other pilots raise the Northwest pilots for an hour, but the airline's dispatcher should have been trying to reach them as well. The three flight attendants onboard should have questioned why there were no preparations for landing being made. Brightly lit cockpit displays should have warned the pilots it was time to land.



source: http://news.yahoo.co...airport_overflown




"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."

-- E.L. Doctorow
     How do you overshoot a whole city? - (lincoln) - (6)
         was it a male and female in the cockpit? -NT - (boxley)
         Well, everyone does call Minnesota "Flyover country" -NT - (jbrabeck)
         It's not that hard - (Mycroft_Holmes_Iv) - (2)
             No voice recorder except last 30 minutes. - (crazy) - (1)
                 If the fighters had been scrambled it woulda be worse. - (Another Scott)
         Pilot that overshot airport: Crew wasn't napping - (lincoln)

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