Saying that government money is "involved" ...

Post #316,028 by drook 10/22/09 10:51:42 AM Reply	Saying that government money is "involved" ... ... is like saying that a pig is "involved" in making breakfast. -- Drew
Post #316,078 by beepster 10/23/09 12:09:19 AM Reply	Where do you stop? What he says he wants and what the rules will establish and allow are nearly always 2 completely different things. Is the next step that noone can bid on government contract unless they agree to some arbitrary gov't pay scheme? Certainly gov't money is "involved" there as well. Is the followup that a gov't sponsored healthcare plan is built, companies end up enrolling...then, in order to stay in without penalty the gov't forces their wage scale. This cat won't go back in the bag...and advantage is being taken of the attitude you show of "serves them right" to put us on the slope in the first place. I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
Post #316,082 by crazy 10/23/09 6:24:18 AM Reply	Difference between ownership and contracting These companies wouldn't exist without the intervention, and the people running them have seemed to different goals than the new owners. Us. So it is up to us to make sure they don't screw us AGAIN. Which means make the "top" level unattractive to the sharks. There are VERY few people that this impacts and those people are not necessarily the people that we want in place anyway. And while I know you think $200,000 is low for some key areas of the country (and I agree with you), is is very high for the regions that have been hit by the car problems. I would expect that a few people get more after they renegotiate, and the perks will be buried without being directly attributable to the person. If the feds did not come in, the vast majority of these people would be out of work, along with the line workers. You may say they are well recruited, but they also have a LOT of competition from other people, people who don't have the same interests as them, people who know that you need a little constructive destruction before you can stop repeating the same mistakes. So I suspect the feds have many resumes in their pocket, waiting to see what positions open up after the shit settles. No idea if the new people will be better or worse than the old people, but we already know the old people were bad at what they were doing. I think the term ossified applies. So this is probably one step of many squeezing them out without firing them directly.
Post #316,114 by beepster 10/23/09 3:53:09 PM Reply	Many contractors wouldn't exist without the government contracts. And if the goal is to get them out, get them out. I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
Post #316,118 by crazy 10/23/09 4:35:45 PM Reply	Whoa I said that was the difference. While I am aware of a variety of rules on contractors as they push diversity, this issue isn't concerning them, just the banks and autos. The feds own the banks and autos at this point. Simple as that. Without the fed money they would not exist, at least not without a dramatic convulsion of downsizing and brain drain. Whoever signs the paycheck gets to set the rate and tell the employees what their jobs are. Don't like it? Quit. Same thing you'd tell any employee of any entity, right?
Post #316,120 by beepster 10/23/09 4:44:13 PM Reply	They don't own controlling interest they own alot, but not 51% of CITI, for example..number is under 35. So it isn't like the boss coming in and setting wages. While you pretend this is how it is, they are NOT signing the paychecks. May have made it possible for there to be paychecks...but that doesn't mean they are signing them. Sorry. I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
Post #316,124 by Another Scott 10/23/09 5:41:12 PM Reply	Um... You agree that they wouldn't exist without the US bailout. Yet you say that the US doesn't have control. You are aware, I'm sure, that the US structured the bailout so that it wouldn't have control, by design. The politics of the arrangement is very different from the actual finances. Citibank's market cap is $102B - http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=c The US has effectively dumped over $300B into the firm - http://www.cbsnews.c...main4629267.shtml It's ours in all but name. The management there may grumble, but they know they have no choice - as a result of their own actions. HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #316,143 by beepster 10/24/09 10:32:16 AM Reply	Politics vs Rules it makes a difference. It also makes a difference in that some have made attempts to pay back these funds, and some didn't want them in the first place...but now they are all subject to this. If what these people did was criminal. Put them in jail. Now you are simply allowing your prejudice against their actions drive a change in policy that is simply counter to the fundamentals of the econ system. If I had any confidence that it would stop here, I would likely agree with this group...I have zero, more likely negative faith that it will stop here. How "washington as usual" does it have to get before you all figure out this "change" thing was a sham? I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.

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