Post #310,511
7/6/09 9:22:13 AM
7/6/09 9:32:16 AM
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Don't know how much I can do with the host
Problem is I didn't find out about this because I got a bounce. Whenever I get those -- and they always travel in packs of hundreds of them for a day or two -- I always check the reason. And it's almost always content based. I can't remember ever seeing that my domain was on a blacklist.
This one I only found out about because someone who had written me saw my reply in her Yahoo spam folder. I've asked her to forward it to me so I can check the headers but haven't heard back yet.
...
Wait, just sent a test message to my own Yahoo account and it went straight to spam folder. Nothing on the headers to indicate why, no bounce message to me. [sigh] Just opened a ticket with my host to see if I can get access to my smtp log.
[edit]
Oh great. I just read this: http://www.ahfx.net/...g.php?article=107
Looks like Yahoo has had a practice for several years to drop everything from a domain into spam for all recipients if one of them hits the "Mark as spam" button. And they don't respond to requests to fix it. Awesome.
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Drew
Edited by drook
July 6, 2009, 09:32:16 AM EDT
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Post #310,517
7/6/09 10:46:04 AM
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Hence the verb
On several non-tech Yahoo groups, the explanation "I've been yahooed" is commonly used to explain why someone has vanished and then reappeared under a new address.
Doesn't always mean spam-filtered, but that's a major category.
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Post #310,525
7/6/09 12:46:19 PM
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try to add your sending addy into your address book
and try it again to see if it still goes into the spam folder
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Post #310,529
7/6/09 1:27:20 PM
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I clicked the "not spam" button
Now that address goes to my inbox. However I've got several addresses things come from. (Main address, newsletter address, support address, etc.) And I wonder if this means that address now gets through to everyone, or whether they use global blacklisting but personal whitelisting. This sucks balls.
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Drew
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Post #310,530
7/6/09 1:34:45 PM
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do you have rdns setup for each?
that is an important piece
if newsletter.drook.net reverse lookup comes up bawbs.isp.com antispam devices dont like it.
thanx.
bill
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Post #310,534
7/6/09 1:42:59 PM
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No, but ...
That's not what's happening here. I've seen bounces because of rdns. These aren't generating bounces, just silently going to the spam folder. Which, unless you check it, gets groomed at 30 days.
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Drew
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Post #310,535
7/6/09 2:11:54 PM
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your senderscore looks okay
https://www.sendersc...=87&ipLookup.y=33
80 is pretty decent but its listed as a medium risk because of low volume
you dont appear on blacklists according to senderscore. It may be other mail from that IP may be spam and that is affecting your deliverability. Is it a shared outbound IP?
thanx,
bill
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Post #310,539
7/6/09 2:52:26 PM
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I'm sure it is
I don't have a dedicated IP for the website. I've never even looked for whether they offer dedicated IP for mail. (And no, I don't want to run my own mailer if I can help it.)
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Drew
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Post #310,541
7/6/09 5:12:13 PM
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USE GOOGLEMAIL for you domain.
Setup DNS properly with your DNS provider.
Helps out tremendously.
You have to setup them up once you start, something like this (in bind)(others similar):
cooklikeyourgrandmother.com. 3600 IN MX 5 alt2.aspmx.l.google.com.
cooklikeyourgrandmother.com. 3600 IN MX 10 aspmx2.googlemail.com.
cooklikeyourgrandmother.com. 3600 IN MX 10 aspmx3.googlemail.com.
cooklikeyourgrandmother.com. 3600 IN MX 10 aspmx4.googlemail.com.
cooklikeyourgrandmother.com. 3600 IN MX 10 aspmx5.googlemail.com.
cooklikeyourgrandmother.com. 3600 IN MX 1 aspmx.l.google.com.
cooklikeyourgrandmother.com. 3600 IN MX 5 alt1.aspmx.l.google.com.
You first have to verify that you own the domain.
Once you do that, all you have to do is also set you SPF record properly, something along the lines of:
cooklikeyourgrandmother.com. 3600 IN TXT "v=spf1 +mx include:aspmx.googlemail.com -all"
If you also want, to make the real SPF DNS record, but only the absolute *LATEST* DNS server stuffs support it, so its not really needed yet.
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Post #310,542
7/6/09 5:50:30 PM
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Can I just route outgoing through them?
I'm really familiar with the current interface, and all my archives are there. I don't want to learn a whole new workflow if I can help it.
Also, I'm paranoid, which means I pay a lot of attention to the people saying they used Google for something and had service outages with no recourse.
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Drew
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Post #310,547
7/6/09 10:55:06 PM
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About those outages...
And you aren't having services outages NOW without recourse? (SPAM, rejected messages, etc...)
Come on... the service outages you have heard about are *NOT* any worse than *ANY* other service *AND* there *IS* nothing to adjust to.
IMAPS works *JUST FINE*.
They will migrate 100% of your existing e-mail if its on a publicly available server, there is a migration assistant.
Paranoia about outages are very over-blown, its because its "Google", remember HotMail when Microsoft took it over?. The worst *I* have had and *WE* have been using it for nearly 2 years now... a bit sketchy with an external e-mail client, the web-browser interface has only ever been a bit slow during problem times.
Google Docs, Hosted e-mail, "sites" an awesome calendar, up to 50 users without much issue. Archives and rules and responsive people.
Get over your paranoia and just take the plunge.
And yes, you could only send through it.
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Post #310,551
7/6/09 11:33:26 PM
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Fair point
What makes me hesitate is that some of the cheerleading for Google sounds like what I've heard from MS supporters for years. And there's the same danger, that if my problem is something that they don't want to fix, I'm small enough that they don't have to care.
Right now, for book sales, I've got one vendor for taking orders, a second for processing payments, and a third for book production. This happens to be the best deal for me financially, though it does take marginally more work on my end. But I like that it also insulates me from changes in any one of them.
I can switch out the payment processor, or allow multiple processors, with one change to the ordering setup. I can take orders directly through the book publisher or payment processor with minimal changes to my website. I can even switch out the book publisher without changing anything on the website.
The additional work it causes me to manually copy things from one system to another can be automated once volume is high enough to justify the time (or expense).
What I'm getting at is that I don't want to be too dependent on any one company. And Google's offerings are so comprehensive that it would be very easy to end up that way. The way lots of online entrepreneurs put it is, "If the majority of your income is routed through Google, you're a Google employee."
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Drew
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Post #310,553
7/7/09 8:07:03 AM
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Not particularly brilliant...
But you are definitely not thinking through. Do you honestly think *ANY* provider will listen to you if you have an issue that they don't want to address? Get over yourself. Until you flash the cash and have a fully paid enterprise license/subscription for *ANYTHING* you are a small fish.
The Apps and e-mail aren't part of you direct payment scheme, just tools to help you get there.
If you want to make it hard, fine do that, but then stop asking paranoia induced questions about it.
I gave you a solution using a very reliable service, that IMO, offers much more than *ANY* other mail hosting provider... and allows you to do anything you want for basically scratch for cost.
The only thing *YOU* have to get past... is your over arching repulsion to using Google.
Trust me when I say this:
When I was first being told I had to use this service and completely rely on Google to "be a good company and do no evil"... I was extremely skeptical. In fact, I thrashed on it for weeks. Finally, the CEO told me to shut up and ignore your personal alarms going off for a few weeks. Then if you still have issues, we can discuss it. I did that and most of my uncomfortableness has gone.
All in all, *I STILL* hate the way Google Docs works in most instances, as its hard to get the spreadsheet stuff to work the way *I* want them to. But in general, the entire experience has been very up and down, but in the complete arena of what we do, (SaaS), its very... nice to not have to run around to the 50 different locations for info... for anything you want to do its just plain good enough.
I'm not saying you have to switch, but come on, let us be real here, you HONESTLY believe that Google will be a Microsoft in the long run? Sure there will always be the Vocal minority against Google (include Microsoft in that vocal group) and Google faux-pas will happen regularly. Google takes its services *VERY* seriously, as compared to Microsoft... (refer you to your XML parser issue). Google's support has been more than usable and has actually helped things get fixed. They are plain and short sometimes, but it gets the job done and without fluff. We have had about 40 tickets open with them so far and all have either been fixed or explained.
But the Vocal Minority for Microsoft has *ALWAYS* been much larger and been poo-pooed away by them and nobody has taken them to task as they *DO NOT* respond in normal ways.
When has Google *REALLY* been evil? Sure they have some draconian rules on ads and TOS, but that is because of people gaming the system. They have also said ... oops on some operation issues. So, ho often does the Bank you work for... change the email system out from under itself? Or release new features or improve distributed content delivery or release new products all while still being live?
I don't care to use Google for everything, but since I am for nearly everything work related, its... been fairly easy and is a known quantity. Stop complaining about your fear of reliance on a single point of service. You can still save everything locally and archive it local. But... to be honest, you are swatting at imaginary flies.
I don't know what to tell you.
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Post #310,554
7/7/09 8:36:59 AM
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What flavor was the Kool Aid?
I've made a conscious decision to work a little harder, so that I maintain the ability to use multiple vendors for key parts of my business. I consider it bad practice to commit so fully to one stack that I get locked in, even if only by inertia. I don't want to be completely dependent on any vendor.
I would have thought you'd understand that. But instead you seem to be taking it personally that I'm not making the same decision that your employer has. "I was extremely skeptical ... the entire experience has been very up and down ..." But I am "swatting at imaginary flies".
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Drew
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Post #310,597
7/8/09 8:43:38 AM
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I said it wasn;t particularly brilliant...
But yes I understand.
I'm not really saying its nirvana, but things "just work".
If you want to beat down Google, fine.
I'm not taking it personal, just giving you my personal view on it.
And yes, personally, I'd rather be using GroupWise from Novell for all this crap... but you know, its just not in the cards.
Summary:
Yes you can *just* send from Google, but you should also have your domain serviced from there for mail. You can remove all mail just like any other pop service and be done with it. That way you can just manage all groups and aliases from hosted gmail.
Last word I'll say on this.
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Post #310,555
7/7/09 8:37:20 AM
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sorry, my business offerings are much better than google
and we take both pride and pleasure in helping even our smallest customer. That Goes from CEO to lowliest Customer Care person. So if you do want one stop shopping, we are a better provider</rant off>
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Post #310,598
7/8/09 8:45:13 AM
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Yeah I know Box...
And you offer collaboration services NOT tied to Sharepoint and Exchange? (not Crappy Zimbra either?)
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Post #310,600
7/8/09 8:49:19 AM
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yes
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Post #310,544
7/6/09 7:31:19 PM
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You might have to try some social engineering.
Where I work, we send a lot of automated email out. It's how the website works. We get calls from both our clients and our customers about non-delivery of email. There is one ISP that seems determined to flag all our email as spam, so we're upfront about telling people that. Contacting them about it is often fruitless. I don't know how many people have switched to another ISP but it has been suggested a few times.
Wade.
Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers? A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
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Post #310,545
7/6/09 8:14:47 PM
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well if its social engineering you need
get the users to put you in their addressbook and/or personal whitelist. Most edge software will let that info thru. Only if it has a url listed as spammy on multiple blacklists will it drop silently or on the isp's roll yer own rbl
Some ISP's are better than others, telling me that a chain email has got to go thru just because wont usually cut it.
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