It's bitten VW a bit, though.

Post #307,843 by Another Scott 4/26/09 1:29:15 AM Reply	It's bitten VW a bit, though. The first VW Phaeton was built on the same assembly line as the Bentley Continental models. Smart buyers could figure that the Phaeton was a cheaper Bentley, but at least in the US, instead they said, "WTF? A $101k VW?!?!" http://en.wikipedia....olkswagen_Phaeton It's very hard for a company with lots of brands in the same category not to end up competing with itself and damaging its brands in the process. Ford learned that lesson with the Edsel, which was intended to be a brand between Ford and Mercury. GM was especially bad about that and never really learned that lesson. Cheers, Scott.
Post #307,844 by static 4/26/09 5:20:39 AM Reply	This is true. That's why I said they don't overlap much. The Phaeton was a good example. The Ford example is even better. Wade. "Ah -- I take it the doorbell doesn't work?"
Post #307,848 by folkert 4/26/09 8:55:21 AM Reply	Re: This is true. Ford Explorer Mercury Mountaineer Lincoln Navigator (I think that is the name) Ford Taurus Mercury Sable Lincoln ... (none) Ford Tempo Mercury Topaz Lincoln ... (none) Oh yes, Ford has learned its lesson. Sock the high end on unique cars except for the SUV market. Otherwise saturate the market with both brands. There really is NO distinction between Ford and Mercury anymore. At least the last 20 years has been this way. GM started blurring the lines between the brands in the 70s and really deserves to get everything its sown. Don't get me wrong, I love Oldsmobile... really and truly. I feel Pontiac and Buick should have been trimmed when they trimmed Oldsmobile a few years back.
Post #307,852 by Another Scott 4/26/09 9:27:08 AM Reply	It's been an uneven lesson. Mercury had the Capri in the past, when Ford didn't. I get your point, but at present: Ford - 18 vehicles at http://www.ford.com/...le-showroom#/ford: F150, Flex, Focus, Focus Coupe, Fusion, Fusion Hybrid, Mustang, Taurus X, Taurus, Edge, Escape, Escape Hybrid, Explorer, Explorer Sport Trac, Expedition, Ranger, F250-F350-F450, E-Series Mercury - 7 vehicles at http://www.ford.com/...showroom#/mercury: Mariner, Mariner Hybrid, Mountaineer, Grand Marquis (no de Sade Edition, though), Sable, Milan, Milan Hybrid. Yes, there's some overlap, and maybe more than there should be, but not as much as there is among GM divisions: Chevy (17), Pontiac (9), Buick (3), GMC (16), Saturn (5), Hummer (6), Saab (6), Cadillac (12). There's a lot of overlap there, especially among the SUVs/Crossovers (where the US companies put their development dollars over the last decade or so). I think GM's most obvious waypoint on the way to C11 was when they decided to shift V-8 engines among divisions. What made a Pontiac a Pontiac, and an Olds an Olds, was ultimately the engines. Sure, they could have economized by sharing more parts, but when they put Chevy engines in Oldsmobiles with no benefit for the buyer, it was a sign that GM was killing their brands. Cheers, Scott.
Post #307,861 by folkert 4/26/09 1:34:10 PM Reply	That event in 1977... GM putting Chevy engines in the Oldsmobile cars... Mainly a planning problem. They ran out of Oldsmobile engines and had to fill the orders. Mid-year screwup and a light went on for them. The Buick 231 was a horrible motor until they put a "North Front Cover Assembly" on that motor which had the oil-pump, water pump and timing pieces. Once they did that, it got put in DERN NEAR every car with a V6 in it from GM. Sure did make it feel like any car from GM was any car from GM. only real difference was the "trim" level. Feh, GM needs to cut the bone out on things and nearly start over.
Post #307,865 by Another Scott 4/26/09 3:24:21 PM Reply	That's not my recollection, but I could be wrong. I do have a bad memory when it comes to certain things that you bring up. ;-) My recollection is that GM had decided that it didn't make sense to do the engineering necessary to improve the mileage and emissions on all of their engines. So, they thought that if they put Chevy engines in Oldsmobiles they could save some scratch and nobody would care. Until old geezers would buy a Delta 88 and then go to change the oil and find out it had a Mouse motor in it. And they sued. Then GM started putting their disclaimer, "May contain an engine from other GM divisions...". Let's see... While the Wikipedia "Oldsmobile" article mentions the production issues, this story from the NY Times (just the first sentence or two is free) is closer to my recollection: http://select.nytime...994DB405B878BF1D3 G.M. Calls Its Engine Swapping Innocent, But to the Brand-Faithful Buyer It's a Sin By REGINALD STUART Special to The New York Times March 15, 1977, Tuesday Section: Business & Finance, Page 51, 1240 words DETROIT, March 14--Small wonder that the General Motors Corporation is putting Chevrolet engines in Oldsmobiles. It installed Oldsmobile engines in Cadillac's new luxury mid-sized Seville. IOW, it was GM being GM... ;-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #307,871 by static 4/26/09 8:25:32 PM Reply	IOW, it's bitten them a lot :-) Silly fools. Ford and GM, both. Wade. "Ah -- I take it the doorbell doesn't work?"

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