Pressing

Post #30,714 by ChrisR 3/4/02 4:04:28 PM Reply	Pressing The idea of who exactly was a British citizen and who was an American citizen was much more fluid back then. American citizens many times did not have formal documentation or papers - they weren't as big into bureaucracy back then. Also, a lot of British sailors would claim to be American in order to try to evade the draft - what with private shipping being much more profitable. I suppose the only good thing to come out of the War was that we finally got a good ~~drinking song~~ national anthem. :-)
Post #30,760 by marlowe 3/4/02 8:07:09 PM Reply	Be careful what you're excusing, there. If you accept the draft dodge excuse, then it follows that we would've been well within out right to invade Canada... in the late 1960's. Grab any likely looking young man who can't show ID. But guys, it really wasn't all about the blockade against France and the Napoleonic Wars, and Ben would have us think. It's all part of a pattern going back at least to the French and Indian War. The British ruling class looked down on the colonists. After we won the Revolution, there was much wounded pride in the Hanoverian dynasty. At first they weren't inclined to open old wounds. But a couple of other things came up that made the Brits - shall we say - touchy, neither of which were our fault: the London riot around Wilkes, and the Napoleonic Wars. England had something to prove. They were looking for a war. They as much as fought one against us with such heavyhanded actions as the Chesapeake and impressment. They weren't interested in working things out. They didn't see our sovereignty as legitimitate, and so they did as they pleased to our ships and their crew. Prior to the 1812 War, there was a sizeable party within the United States that wanted a reconciliation with the mother country. Had the latter shown even a modicum of genuine regard, who could say whether we might have joined the war against Napoleon on England's side? We weren't strong enough to make much of a difference, but it couldn't have hurt. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Truth is that which is the case. Accept no substitutes. If competence is considered "hubris" then may I and my country always be as "arrogant" as we can possibly manage.
Post #30,789 by ben_tilly 3/5/02 7:11:20 AM Reply	Believe what you will For you will believe it once you have made your mind up. Which you clearly have. Britain in the middle of fighting for its life in one of the pivotal wars of the last thousand years, against a man who had proven himself the most successful conquerer born on European soil since Alexander the Great, really gave a shit about conquering the USA? A people in the middle of a war that reshaped Europe were going out looking for another? Why? Didn't they like the one they already had? Yeah. Fucking. Right. That makes no more sense than your comparison of stopping and searching ships which were running a blockade to marching an army onto foreign soil looking for deserters. And I will now proceed to allow you to achieve yet another "success" in the self-fulfilling delusion you call a belief system. We are going around in circles, and I have better things to do with my time than waste it in endless arguments on the net with people who have made their mind up and then tailor their understanding of facts to suit. The field is yours. I invite you to share notes with President Madison and Saddam Hussein on the sweet taste of victory. Ben "... I couldn't see how anyone could be educated by this self-propagating system in which people pass exams, teach others to pass exams, but nobody knows anything." --Richard Feynman
Post #30,795 by marlowe 3/5/02 9:20:15 AM Reply	You project your way of thinking upon them. That's why you can't conceive of their motives being anything other than what yours would be in the same situation. Yes, they were just off a major fight, and looking for another. Why not? It happens. It happens a lot in daily life, in both large affairs and small. Why, look at Microsoft. Do they ever get tired of making, and then fending off, enemies left and right? And it can happen after losing the previous fight, too. Do the Palestinians ever get tired of losing, and decide to just settle for what they have? No. Your scorn is a poor substitute for the imagination to conceive that other people think and feel differently than you would, even in other eras. Please forgive me for bringing the cultural context and the rest of the historical context into it, thus upsetting your preconceived notions. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Truth is that which is the case. Accept no substitutes. If competence is considered "hubris" then may I and my country always be as "arrogant" as we can possibly manage.

Welcome to IWETHEY!