Post #304,082
2/13/09 8:36:45 AM
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My we are willing...
...to split hairs now, aren't we?
Listening to radio on drive in, Bill Posey, representing my district in Wash gave a bit of heads up on the "spirit of bipartisanship" going on. Gingrich had introduced a rule that the minority party could ask for bills to go back to committee for further consideration and get a vote. He did this to be nice to the then minority Democrats. First procedural change in this administration was to rescind that rule.
Sounds like everyone wants to be friends.
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #304,095
2/13/09 10:14:52 AM
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Words sometimes have meanings.
;-)
Oooh. Gingrich was respectful of the rights of the minority, was he? Posey wouldn't have an agenda by chance, would he?
[ Googliegoo...]
Zooks. What pablum - you're falling for talking points again, Beep.
http://osmoothie.com...ublican-minority/
Ooh. It cites "Human Events". Unbiased news source, there.
Let's see, it was a screaming talking point by Boehner and others in early January. It seems that Pelosi was the nefarious person behind it. Where does Pelosi work again? I don't think she's part of the Administration.
How about a more unbiased view:
http://thehill.com/l...g-2009-01-05.html
(Also from early January)
PelosiÂs move has set up a divisive mood on the first day of the 111th Congress, which Republicans say runs counter to the tone set by President-elect Obama.
Republican leaders intend to fight the rules changes, which would curtail their ability to delay legislation by forcing Democrats to take politically difficult votes.
ÂThis is not the kind of openness and transparency that President-elect Obama promised, the GOP leaders wrote Monday in a letter to Pelosi.
Republican leadership aides say the changes will make it easier for the Speaker to run the House and protect vulnerable House Democrats.
But Democratic leadership sources dispute the GOP characterizations, noting that Republicans will still have an opportunity to offer an amendment to bills on the floor, though they wonÂt have the ability to invoke an arcane rule that would in effect kill the entire underlying measure.
Democrats say GOP assertions that Republicans would not be able to offer a Âmotion to recommit are false. They say they are removing the ÂCatch-22 that Republicans have exploited to force embarrassing votes on issues such as gun control and illegal immigration.
The rules package also calls for the end of six-year term limits for committee chairmen. This move is not popular with younger members, but panel chairmen have been pressing for the change since Democratic leaders surprisingly kept the six-year limits intact in their rules package for the 110th Congress.
The change means that House chairmen could be in their posts until they retire or die.
The six-year limit was initially adopted after House Republicans took control of the lower chamber in 1995. That ended the seniority-based system that Democrats had embraced for decades.
Democratic aides argue, however, that term limits under Republican rule meant that the committee member who raises the most money would be rewarded with a chairmanship.
Well, what happened?
http://thehill.com/l...e-2009-01-06.html
However, one of the most contentious issues included in the rules package is a revision to the way Republicans may amend a bill before final passage. The passed rules package allows Democrats to remove the GOPÂs ability to offer a Âmotion to recommit a bill Âpromptly, which in effect kills the underlying legislation.
Democrats argue that Republicans will still have the opportunity to offer amendments to legislation in the final stages, i.e. Âforthwith - they just wonÂt be able to use that amendment for political gimmicks, according to Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.).
ÂMembers have said on the other side, they want to be able to offer an alternative. Nothing in this proposal diminishes their ability to offer an alternative. They are fully able to offer an alternative as an amendment. What they are losing is a legislative Ponzi scheme, Frank argued.
Seems like some reasonable arguments by the proponents to me.
That was January 6. When did Obama take office again? Why is Posey talking about this now? Let's see... http://www.opencongr...412309_bill_posey Hey, he votes with his party 93% of the time. He wouldn't have an interest in spreading Republican leadership talking points, would he?
Don't take the wingnut talking points at face value, Beep.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #304,097
2/13/09 10:26:40 AM
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I see
Barney Frank is a more reasonable viewpoint, is he?
But you're right, can't blame it on the "administration"...he just gave great speeches about bipartisan efforts after Nancy and the gang had already killed a vehicle designed to encourage such things and to increase transparency.
Just another buzzword.
Funny how all this change is seeming to be more of the same...just a different animal as a mascot.
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #304,099
2/13/09 10:45:19 AM
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Motion to Recommit kills legislation.
That's its purpose. It's not "designed to encourage such things and increase transparency."
http://www.rules.hou.../recommit_mot.htm
You're aware that we have something called Separation of Powers, no? We didn't elect Obama BDFL. He doesn't set the House rules.
BTW, here's the text of the bill - HR-5:
http://www.govtrack.....xpd?bill=hr111-5
(g) Instructions in the Motion to Recommit- In clause 2(b) of rule XIX--
(1) designate the existing sentence as subparagraph (1);
(2) in subparagraph (1) (as so designated)--
(A) strike ÂifÂ; and
(B) strike Âincludes instructions, itÂ; and
(3) add the following new subparagraph at the end:
Â(2) A motion to recommit a bill or joint resolution may include instructions only in the form of a direction to report an amendment or amendments back to the House forthwith.Â.
(See the previous link for the meaning of "forthwith" and so forth.)
The final language in rule XIX is here:
http://frwebgate.acc...&docid=hruletx-76
I can't give a sensible interpretation of it, IANAL, but do note the title of the rule is: "motions following the amendment stage" - IOW, it's the last stage after the bill and amendments have been considered. Obviously, sending it back to committee at that stage kills a vote on it. Spinning it otherwise is disingenuous.
Motion to Recommit still exists. http://www.govtrack....ongress/votes.xpd
Funny how all this change is seeming to be more of the same...just a different animal as a mascot.
I was wondering when the "they're all the same" post-script was going to appear. :-D
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #304,100
2/13/09 10:58:50 AM
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Insanity is a great negotiating tactic
Just ignore all rules of logic, common sense, and law when you have the power to get your way anyway. Then when you're on the weaker side, complain bitterly that the stronger party isn't treating you fairly. If the best you can do is accuse your opponent of being pragmatic (in dealing with your patent absurdity) then you say they're just like you.
I'm reminded of the Lawyer's Primer -- http://thinkexist.co...w-you/178736.html : "If you don't have the law, you argue the facts; if you don't have the facts, you argue the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, then you argue the Constitution." But they missed the last step, beautifully laid out in the ice cream scene from Thank You For Smoking -- http://www.youtube.c...tch?v=zLS-npemQYQ -- which could be summed up as, "When you have neither the facts, the law nor the Constitution, argue your opponents motives."
--
Drew
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Post #304,104
2/13/09 11:25:28 AM
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The change guarantees
that whatever the controlling party wants, they get. Just like it used to be.
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #304,105
2/13/09 11:50:27 AM
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but its different beep, the democrats wont abuse it :-)
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Post #304,110
2/13/09 1:52:22 PM
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Of course not
there's 41 years of tradition that show otherwi...oh wait.
Never mind.
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
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Post #304,098
2/13/09 10:30:01 AM
2/13/09 10:31:02 AM
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Question
I haven't heard about that issue, so I'm just taking a stab in the dark here. But since this administration was sworn in, have the Republicans started sending bills back to committee at a much higher rate than they used to?
--
Drew

Edited by drook
Feb. 13, 2009, 10:31:02 AM EST
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Post #304,260
2/17/09 4:10:42 AM
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Remeber Newt?
Apparently not.
"He did this to be nice to the then minority Democrats."
Would have been completely out of character. Not to mention not in keeping with his Contract On America.
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Post #304,262
2/17/09 4:16:31 AM
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Got THAT preposition right..
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
-- H.L. Mencken
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Post #304,269
2/17/09 10:18:48 AM
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wasnt for the contract with america
clinton never would have won the election, that WAS the platform he ran on :-)
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