Some parts of it sound bogus to me More details are needed.

The process involves dipping the body in -196C liquid nitrogen until it is brittle, and then placing it on a vibrating mat so it disintegrates into powder.

Remains

A magnetic field then removes metal objects like fillings and artificial limbs from the remains.

1) Putting something in liquid nitrogen (LN2) freezes it quickly. It doesn't necessarily dry it. ([link|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeze_drying|Freeze drying] is done using a vacuum chamber.) Either they break the body up while it's still frozen, or they spend the time and money to dry the body once it's frozen. I can't imagine that it's a quick process to dry a large body.

Also, handling 100-200 pounds of body at liquid nitrogen temperature isn't trivial. If they freeze a body in liquid nitrogen then pull it out to do the shaking, then it will immediately begin developing frost and condensation from water in the air. Grandma will soon be encased in ice. If the vibrations succeed in breaking her up, the remains would soon be a messy collection of body stuff, ice, and water. This implies that the process would have to be done in a vacuum chamber to keep moist air out.

2) Most of the metals used in bodies (mercury amalgam, gold, titanium, stainless steel, etc.) aren't magnetic. I don't see how "a magnetic field removes metals" in the process. I assume they'll actually use a strainer to remove foreign materials.

I really don't see how this is especially environmentally benign. It takes electricity to make LN2 (though the process must be pretty cheap and efficient because LN2 is ~ a dollar a gallon in industrial quantities), and it takes refrigerated tanker trucks to deliver it (it's usually cheaper to get deliveries than to make it on site). There are environmental costs for this process, too, but the on-site costs (LN2 storage, vacuum chamber, handling equipment for frozen bodies, etc.) are probably going to be a bigger issue.

I'm sure electric crematoria can be constructed (to try a body without burning it) if emissions from burning are an issue.

So, color me skeptical.

The [link|http://www.promessafoundation.org/index.php|Promessa Foundation] has a little more info, but doesn't talk about the process in detail. It apparently hasn't actually been used on a body yet.

Cheers,
Scott.

Post #295,364 by Another Scott 10/30/07 8:01:35 AM Reply	Some parts of it sound bogus to me More details are needed. The process involves dipping the body in -196C liquid nitrogen until it is brittle, and then placing it on a vibrating mat so it disintegrates into powder. Remains A magnetic field then removes metal objects like fillings and artificial limbs from the remains. 1) Putting something in liquid nitrogen (LN2) freezes it quickly. It doesn't necessarily dry it. ([link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeze_drying\|Freeze drying] is done using a vacuum chamber.) Either they break the body up while it's still frozen, or they spend the time and money to dry the body once it's frozen. I can't imagine that it's a quick process to dry a large body. Also, handling 100-200 pounds of body at liquid nitrogen temperature isn't trivial. If they freeze a body in liquid nitrogen then pull it out to do the shaking, then it will immediately begin developing frost and condensation from water in the air. Grandma will soon be encased in ice. If the vibrations succeed in breaking her up, the remains would soon be a messy collection of body stuff, ice, and water. This implies that the process would have to be done in a vacuum chamber to keep moist air out. 2) Most of the metals used in bodies (mercury amalgam, gold, titanium, stainless steel, etc.) aren't magnetic. I don't see how "a magnetic field removes metals" in the process. I assume they'll actually use a strainer to remove foreign materials. I really don't see how this is especially environmentally benign. It takes electricity to make LN2 (though the process must be pretty cheap and efficient because LN2 is ~ a dollar a gallon in industrial quantities), and it takes refrigerated tanker trucks to deliver it (it's usually cheaper to get deliveries than to make it on site). There are environmental costs for this process, too, but the on-site costs (LN2 storage, vacuum chamber, handling equipment for frozen bodies, etc.) are probably going to be a bigger issue. I'm sure electric crematoria can be constructed (to try a body without burning it) if emissions from burning are an issue. So, color me skeptical. The [link\|http://www.promessafoundation.org/index.php\|Promessa Foundation] has a little more info, but doesn't talk about the process in detail. It apparently hasn't actually been used on a body yet. Cheers, Scott.
Post #295,371 by boxley 10/30/07 8:38:13 AM Reply	maybe microwaving gran would be more efficient Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep reach me at [link\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
Post #295,373 by hnick 10/30/07 9:03:55 AM Reply	Problems there too. Fillings, artificial joints containing metal, pins and plates, and all those convenient forms of alloplasty would have to be removed before processing the body. Might be difficult and expensive.
Post #295,407 by a6l6e6x 10/30/07 6:23:18 PM Reply	Re: magnetic field removing metal. While you are right about a static magnetic field, a rapidly changing magnetic field simply requires the metal to be a good conductor. A rapidly changing magnetic field will cause an [link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current\|eddy current] in the metal pieces. They can then be isolated in what are called [link\|http://www.cogelme.com/eng/e-eddy-current-separators.htm\|eddy current separators] Alex Nobody has a more sacred obligation to obey the law than those who make the law. -- Sophocles (496? - 406 BCE)
Post #295,411 by Another Scott 10/30/07 7:21:56 PM Reply	Neat! Thanks.

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