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New The horrors of Open Office
My client who's running 10 OS/2 workstations needs Open Office so he can read and print certain Microsoft Word documents and Excel spreadsheets that come in as email attachments.

Shouldn't be a problem, right? Serenity Systems and InnoTek have developed a version pf Open Office that runs native on OS/2 and eComStation (Serenity's version of OS/2). You need to pay for a support contract for this version but the client doesn't have a problem with that.

Sorry: no go. When you buy it you find it only works with that 32-bit TCP/IP stack which cannot be obtained legally and is almost as impossible to obtain illegially. Support says thay can't provide it because it's not covered by their license with IBM, it's just part of eComStation.

But, support says, "It's not really a problem because you can still download the MPTN upgrade that installs the 32-bit stack from IBM".

Yup, you can, but if you install it without the unavailable applications routing doesn't work any more. You can access the default gateway and anything beyond, but nothing on your own network.

Support pointed me to sites where I could get information and a link to where I could download the upgrade but those sites are all extinct now (the download site I don't know for how long, the information site went out last week).

So, as long as I'd already spent days messing around I pulled out my old eComStation 1.00 CDs. They include the IBM "Convenience Pack" so have the stack and applications.

Well, the eComStation install worked just as well as I'd remembered - absolute disaster. So I installed from CDROM #2, the IBM install. That went just fine, no complaints - except that neither TCP/IP nor IBM Peer networking worked at all. Peer wouldn't even accept a login.

OK - another approach. A slightly modified Windows version is supposed to work fine running on InnoTek's runtime package for Adobe Reader 5.1 (which does work just fine).

Well, it's slow, but it runs, and loads Word and Excel documents, and modifies them and saves them (but the default file extension feature doesn't work).

It won't work with any formats other than Microsoft's including any Open Office, Star Office or ODF formats - trying to load or save any of those just blows it out of the water leaving the InnoTek runtime running and even PSPM2 can't kill the process.

Selecting Tools/Options blows it out of the water too - exactly the problem that caused us to abandon Star Office 5.1 years ago when we had to start using fixpacks beyond 5 and TCP/IP.

Well, maybe we can get along with a crippled Open Office for a little while, while we plan a migration to Linux desktop. Only problem is they're addicted to that wonderful little word processor ClearLook which only runs on OS/2. Otherwise no problem (so long as Linux still runs DOS applications well - I'll have to test that, it might be another nightmare).

I think restricting availability of the 32-bit TCP/IP stack was a deliberate move on IBM's part to kill OS/2, and I'll never forgive them for that, no matter how nice they are to Linux.

And why do developers (Open Office, MySQL and others) require OS/2 with an upgrade that can't be obtained? That's just plain stupid.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New What a nightmare.
I assume you've checked Pete Norloff's site for the fixes? If it's available and OS/2 related, he should have it.

[link|http://www.os2bbs.com/download/index.html|http://www.os2bbs.co...wnload/index.html]

(Note you may need to use Telnet to download the files if you're not a subscriber. Instructions are there.)

I keep hoping that Virtualization will make it possible for people to keep running OS/2 apps without worrying about drivers or special networking mojo, but it sounds like that's too much to hope for.

Good luck.

Cheers,
Scott.
New No, it's not to be found there.
Problem is, IBM released the TCP/IP upgrade for distribution then immediately declared that was a mistake, withdrew it, demanded it not be distributed, put a price tag on it and sold it for awhile, then it became unavailable at any price.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New What version of TCP/IP stack?
New The stack isn't the problem part . . .
. . since stacks higher than 5.12.2 (fixpack 15 level) are easily downloadable from IBM - they just won't work right without the rest of the upgrade.

The package "IBM TCP/IP for Warp" to go along with the stack so it works right has to be 4.1 or 4.3. Fixpack 15 leaves it at 4.0.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New check your email to continue discussion. ;-)
New Reply sent.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New why on earth is an office tool tied to an IP stack?
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New Ain't got a clue . . .
. . but it looks for it and refuses to start if it isn't there.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New hmmm, any way to make it think that it found it?
have had luck in the past faking things like that out.
thanks,
Bill
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New That's what *she* said :-D
Smile,
Amy
New Why on earth is an office tied to OS/2? ;)
Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
New Because . . .
. . OS/2 is very good at running DOS programs. Each workstation has 3 to 6 DOS windows open at any one time, they are used intensively, and extremely fast network response is expected.

And those DOS applications aren't going away because the owners feel they are a very major reason they have been able to thrash the competition and become multi-millionaires. They can answer in seconds inquiries their much larger competitors take up to half an hour on.

And because I wrote those programs and don't care to rewrite them for some other OS.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Could you drop a nix server in?
And run openoffice on that?
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New He already has a Linux server . . .
. . with RAID1, and an identical backup server that updates by NFS every evening just before the backup tape is run, and then the backup zip drive is written (he doesn't like the idea of losing data or having a server down).

There is an X client for OS/2 but it looks pretty complicated to install.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Can't be any more complicated than this problem :-)
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New Hoblink is not bad at all for that.
Take a look see at that one....
New Working now.
All you have to do to install OpenOffice on Warp 4 is:\r\n
    \r\n
  1. Purchase a support contract for OpenOffice 2.0.4 from Mensys and download the install package.
  2. \r\n
  3. Start with a properly working OS/2 system.
  4. \r\n
  5. Install Fixpack 15 from the BMT Micro Fixpack CD.
  6. \r\n
  7. Install TCP/IP, Peer and MPTN updates from the BMT Micro Fixpack 15 CD.
  8. \r\n
  9. Install Netscape Communicator 4.6 from the BMT Micro Fixpack 15 CD.
  10. \r\n
  11. Find, download and install the IBM Feature Installer v1.25.
  12. \r\n
  13. Install the Java 1.1.8 Runtime from the BMT Micro Fixpack 15 CD - later Java versions won't work for this install.
  14. \r\n
  15. Get and install MPTN updates and protocol stacks from the TCP/IP v4.3 install package (TCP/IP stack v6.00).
  16. \r\n
  17. Get and install the TCP/IP 4.3 applications package so you can configure the stack.
  18. \r\n
  19. Reconfigure TCP/IP routing. Remove all three lines from the routing table from the earlier TCP/IP version, reboot, enter only a default route in the table and reboot.
  20. \r\n
  21. Find, download and install the Fixpack 16 kernel v14.104a and boot loader (not an IBM release).
  22. \r\n
  23. Download and unzip the LVM package from Serenity Systems. Copy LVM.DLL \r\nto \\OS2\\DLL.
  24. \r\n
  25. Install the InnoTek WarpIn installer.
  26. \r\n
  27. You might as well install the latest Innotek Runtime package and the Windows version of Adobe Acrobat Reader 5.1 since you know you'll need them.
  28. \r\n
  29. Install the latest InnoTek Font Package Beta.
  30. \r\n
  31. Using WarpIn install netlabs' UniClip.
  32. \r\n
  33. Using WarpIn install netlabs' LibC 0.6.2.
  34. \r\n
  35. Using WarpIn install OpenOffice 2.0.4.
  36. \r\n
  37. Install FireFox 2.0.0.4 or later so you don't have to use that antique Netscape Navigator.
  38. \r\n
  39. Optional: install the InnoTek Java 1.4 package if you are going to use Java and need something better than 1.1.8.
  40. \r\n
\r\nSpecial note for DOS programs - if you go beyond Fixpack 12 be sure both DOS_High and DOS_UMB are enabled or DOS network performance will suck rocks.\r\n\r\n

And while we're on OpenOffice, the modified Windows OpenOffice is supposed to run reasonably stable under InnoTek's runtime package. In my tests it installs fine (be sure to quote the parameter string on your icon properties - they don't tell you that). Strangely, it seemed to work quite well loading editing and saving Microosft Word and Excel documents but if you tried to save in OpenOffice or ODF formats it'd blow every time. Attempting to use the Options setting table would also blow it out of the water. Rather limited usefulness.

[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
Expand Edited by Andrew Grygus Oct. 30, 2007, 10:04:12 AM EDT
New Oh, so it was that easy? Then WTH took you so long?
;-)
New It's a good thing you get paid by the hour, isn't it? ;-)
I trust you've burned the successful installation tree to a bootable CD?

What a nightmare. You're a better man than me, AG.

Glad you got it working!

Cheers,
Scott.
New on jobs like that you never bill all yer hours
or you wont be invited back. When I had my own shop my motto was If I cant fix it I dont get paid and any extensive research would be billed patially depending on the complexity.
thanx,
bill
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New Concur
Same motto/experience. You can never accurately estimate the time for something like that. And if you did, the client would never accept it.

Chomp chomp. Eat those extra hours...
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
New Depends
You want what? By when!?!?
I have no idea how to do it, and the knowledge gained is very specific to your company, so any educational time will be dedicated to you.
Plus, I'm tired, I have a bunch of stuff to do, and all them have near term deliverables. So, I'll probably be making mistakes as I learn and I'll still be charging you to fix the mistakes.
It'll cost, probably a lot.
How much?
No idea, like I said, I have to figure out how to do it.
Ok, but when you get the bill in 2 weeks, I want to you to look at this email where I warned you it'll cost a lot.
Do it?
Ok!

2 weeks later, HIS boss calls me about the bill.
WTF - Are you crazy? (yup).
Look at these hours!
And I see you even billed us for redo work! You never bill us for redo!

Me: Please refer to the original email,
BUT 1: If you feel it is excessive, I'll discount 30% of the bill to cover education and redo,
BUT 2: Do not expect any quick turnaround commitments ever again.

Him: Paid in full.
New Yup, they'll get billed for some development time . . .
. . but by no means all of it.

Now that I understand the routing problem I might be able to make it work with just the TCP/IP stack downloaded from IBM. Don't know if I'll get around to trying that though.

The way IBM set up routing on the 16-bit TCP/IP stack was a kludge to get around a problem. With the 32-bit stack apparently they fixed the real problem so the kludge became a problem.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
     The horrors of Open Office - (Andrew Grygus) - (23)
         What a nightmare. - (Another Scott) - (5)
             No, it's not to be found there. - (Andrew Grygus) - (4)
                 What version of TCP/IP stack? -NT - (n3jja) - (3)
                     The stack isn't the problem part . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
                         check your email to continue discussion. ;-) -NT - (n3jja) - (1)
                             Reply sent. -NT - (Andrew Grygus)
         why on earth is an office tool tied to an IP stack? -NT - (boxley) - (9)
             Ain't got a clue . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                 hmmm, any way to make it think that it found it? - (boxley)
             That's what *she* said :-D -NT - (imqwerky)
             Why on earth is an office tied to OS/2? ;) -NT - (Meerkat) - (5)
                 Because . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (4)
                     Could you drop a nix server in? - (bepatient) - (3)
                         He already has a Linux server . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
                             Can't be any more complicated than this problem :-) -NT - (bepatient)
                             Hoblink is not bad at all for that. - (jake123)
         Working now. - (Andrew Grygus) - (6)
             Oh, so it was that easy? Then WTH took you so long? -NT - (CRConrad)
             It's a good thing you get paid by the hour, isn't it? ;-) - (Another Scott) - (4)
                 on jobs like that you never bill all yer hours - (boxley) - (3)
                     Concur - (jbrabeck)
                     Depends - (crazy)
                     Yup, they'll get billed for some development time . . . - (Andrew Grygus)

Ahead one third!
138 ms