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New Norm, I'm going to be bluntly honest here.
I'm replying in a seperate topic so that you don't have to read it - and you might not want to read it. Trust me, I'm going to be harsh. If you don't, then close this, mark read, and keep going. Remember, I'm also struggling with depression, and I have my losing days too. I have been struggling with it since I was six, and I didn't even know that was what I was struggling with until quite recently. I'm being this harsh because I *CARE* about you, not because I'm an asshole. :)

The other side of it: Don't reply to this unless you've read the whole thing AND you are willing to reply within the constraints listed. If you want to ignore this posting, you can post a reply saying "I didn't read it" - and that's fine.

[break space - don't read this unless you REALLY want to!]






























Norm, you fit the profile of a certain kind of depressed person: the Chronic Whiner. You complain endlessly about how much your life sucks, how much the world sucks, how you just feel like taking yourself out of the world on a daily basis. The problem with this viewpoint is that it sets you up to fail again and again - I know, because I've been there. As long as you fail, you're "safe" in your position - the Victim of Outside Forces.

Yeah, I know the world sucks. Life sucks, then you die, then they put you in a hole in the ground, and then the worms eat you. BE GLAD IT HAPPENS IN THAT ORDER!!!

I always laugh when I say that. People look at me weird, my wife doesn't like that saying - but it's my own personal victory over the Darkness. One thing I've learned is that there is only one thing you can control - yourself, and your attitude towards the SHIT that comes your way. If you resign that control, you're already dead - which is why you've never bothered to follow up on your suicide threats, you're already there. You also won't ever improve your situation if you're not willing to take some risks.

So you've got physical problems. Yeah, I've got some too. I've learned to live with them. (Crappy hearing, constant constipation, severe absent-mindedness [my wife says it's like living with an amnesiac sometimes], and my sight is starting to go) I've never skydived, saved a life (that I know of), or changed the world (once again, that I know of) but I'm still alive - and I've made one other person's life a little better, my wife's.

What about your wife and son? Have you made their life better? If you think it's just about how much money you can earn, then you really need to reexamine your values. Money is not everything. Toys are not everything. LOVE is not everything, but it counts for a hell of a lot. Fact is, you HAVE made their life better, and your conscious CHOICE to let your depression control you is HURTING them. You still do them good, but you do them bad as well - and killing yourself will do even more evil to them.

You don't have to be perfect - just perfectly willing. Perfectly willing to take responsibility for yourself, and your actions, and let everybody else take or refuse their own responsibility.

If you died today, could you look back at your life and say, "For everything that I did, right or wrong, no matter how it turned out, I do not regret any action that I took, because I took it, and nobody else made that choice for me."

I can do that. Not because I've never made any mistakes (I've made plenty) but because they were my mistakes.

Not my boss's.
Not my wife's.
Not my ex-girlfriend's.
Not my parent's.
Not the government's.
Not the rest of the universe, the multiverse, or God's fault. (Although, she does bear a different kind of responsibility...)

If you look back, and can't do that, then you NEED to start doing that.

Stop whining. When somebody kicks you down, stand back up with a fist. If that's not practical, then find some other way. But don't whine about it. It makes you look horrible, and it traps you.

When my wife was working on her Masters in Psychology, the greatest thing that I learned was that you can't cure somebody who doesn't want to be cured. Your whining is a defense of yours against changing yourself. There may be others. Look into yourself, and figure out what those defenses are. See what you are afraid of, why you're afraid of it, and FIX it, damnit.

Now, the groundrules for response:

No complaining about, "well, it's somebody else's fault because of this or that!" Yeah, but it's YOUR problem now, how are you going to fix it?

That's it. :)
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
New I am going to be blunty honest here as well
First off, you do not know the whole picture or all the deamons that I have fought my entire life.

I was able to quit smoking and drinking, and I did what I could to improve on myself. Some things I may not be able to improve on. My former employer thought that I was not meeting my true potential, whatever that was, which may be true, but the reason why I cannot meet that potential has to do with my depression, and other medical issues, plus the fact that management was not willing to work with me to get around or work around them. You can sit there on your side of the screen and lay 100% of the blame on me and my attitude all you want, I know for a fact that there is a lot I cannot control. Do I want to change? H*ll yes! Can I change? I've tried for a long time, since I was a child. My doctor says I have improved in many areas, but I still need improvement. Is this something I can do in a short time? I do not think so. I had a better attitude before I worked for the lawfirm, in 1997. After working there the job drained all my self respect, all my patience, my will to live, and my happiness, etc. I became the creature that you outlined in your post, after working for four and a half years for the lawfirm. You cannot place 100% of the blame on me.

Whining? Maybe. My illness makes me blurt stuff out sometimes, and blurt it out in forums on the Internet like this one. TMI some have said, but I just cannot stop myself.

Which would be better for my wife and son, a majorly depressed Norm, or a dead Norm? Right now, there is no other alternative. As soon as I change that tape in my head, the illness changes it back. I cannot see my doctor over this due to scheduling conflicts and insurance switching. If I go into a hospital, I'll lose the current job. I have no safety net to fall back on, so I am marching into the face of the enemy with no support and no help. The only thing that has saved me thus far is that when I get suicidal I tell someone, and something gets done to prevent me from offing myself. If I just held it in and didn't whine or complain, I would have died when I was a teenager.

yes I have made mistakes, and I have tried to learn from them. Apparently I tick people off without even trying. So much that there are a group of people after me, and spoofing me on the Yahoo Clubs and Message boards, using my real name, address, phone number, and other stuff they collected on me on the Yahoo areas. Yahoo does not give a sh*t about it, and their Clubs and Message boards are almost total anarchy. They never returned any of my phone calls or emails about the subject. A lot of the stuff, the spoofers made up about me to make me look bad.

I am not just going to get better overnight, I got a brain chemesty imbalance that needs to be treated with medicine. It had been suggested that I take EST or CT to treat it, but I think such meathods are those of quackery. Nobody is going to shock me or pour chemicals into my brain or body.

"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
New Nope, you aren't going to get better over night.
Neither am I.

There is always room for improvement. Don't let what your doctor says kick you down - we all could use some self-improvement.

People on Yahoo impersonating you? Okay. Deal with it. It's not your fault, but it is your responsibility.

Note that nowhere did I talk about BLAME. I talked about RESPONSIBILITY.

BLAME is how we try to avoid RESPONSIBILITY.

I don't BLAME you for becoming what you did at the law firm. Hell, I might have, given the same circumstances. What is in your hands now is the RESPONSIBILITY to do better. BLAME makes people feel better, but it doesn't solve anything.

Finally, good luck. I know it's hard to deal with, I'm fighting the same demons you are. What (in my opinion) you need to do is to find the inner strength to look at the darkness and laugh. Ever read the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever? Saltheart Foamfollower would laugh through his pain, his mistakes, his mistrust of the world - and would come through purified. I laugh at my pain, my trials, my unemployment - and I am content.

Fight well, my friend.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
New As a 30 year Chronic Severe Depression in....
The early stages of recovery, I am continuing to see improvements.

I had(and still have) a severe chemical imbalance caused by my depression, caused by my female parental unit (my MOM, and no Christian you still do not want to "date" her) starting at an early age (pre-8 years or as far as I can honestly remember). Got lots of other Demons and skeletons to deal with too.

I started out on Prozac a very light dose about 4 years ago. I saw an ALMOST immediate turn around of my attitude. of course any change from zero is astronomical. Then about 2.5 years ago, I started to realized I was falling back into the depressive state, or at least I started to feel the gnawing feeling I used to have. My wife also saw the rolling back. My doctor doubled and then quadrupled my doasge... no change after 6 months, but no slide back. He put me on Effexor, a mild dose at 37.5mg a day. That worked for about 6 months, before the it started to roll back again. Doctor doubled my dosage again to 75mg, made a tremendous difference, again for about 6 months. Changed my dosage again to 150mg, it is starting to peter out again, just took longer.

Doctor said he is going to increase it one more time to 225mg before the heavies are brought to bear. You know the ones with real side-effects.

Before my doctor and I started all this, he had an Endochronologist do a full and complete set of chemical tests (I studied real hard for them...;). Hmmm SHE found I have early stages of Hashimoto's Thyroiditis. Plus a really serious serotonin deficiency (hmm...imagine that).

Moral of the story is, GET to the Doctor... MAKE the time... It'll only get worse it you don't. It took my wife threatening to do things, and actually tricking me into going to get me there. But hey, that was my problem.

greg, curley95@attbi.com -- REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!
In 2002, everyone will discover that everyone else is using linux. ** Linux: Good, fast AND cheap. ** Failure is not an option: It comes bundled with Windows. ** "Two rules to success in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know." - Sassan Tat
New It may mean that I have to quit my current job
to get a time that I can see my doctor to get to talk to him about it. I have no comp time or UPTO (unpaid time off) until I am there for 90 days. It hasn't been 30 days yet. According to MO Unemployment I can quit a job due to unsuitable work. DeSitter told me that getting payed a very low salary can qualify as unsuitable work, and I quit before 28 days are up on the job from the hire date. Anyone know the full law?

One of my coworkers at work told me that if the depression was bad enough, I may qualify for disability, but I am not sure how much that pays and if my other medical problems are bad enough to qualify. I am near 275 pounds now, I gained some more weight after starting this job. If I reach 300, I guess that is the Homer Simpson clause? I am trying to lose weight, but it keeps on coming back.

"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
New It may mean that should put...
your real priorities in order. I had to before things started to work. Make sure you take care of you first. If you don, taint knowwunelse gunna.

Any job employer can make time for these kinds of things, there isn't one I know of that won't. Sure they grumble about it, but for them it is far better to have an employee healthy(both physically and mentally) and better able to work well.

I DO know this: if you don't take care of it, it WILL eat you up and spit you out, without batting an eye, with IT being depression.

Make sure you convey your problems to your supervisor, if that does not make a difference, go higher, and higher till it does. Sure I have been there, matter of fact recently with myself I had to go through these kinds of things (Dec 21st was a day off without pay or suspension as some amy call it), so I am still dealing with things.

Cannot stress that you need to get your NEW employer in the loop as far as what is going on. Please, please, stop making things worse by quitting or by doing nothing. UPTO as you call it, is guaranteed by the FMLA. Even if you have only been there a VERY short time. Claim it if you have to but do SOMETHING!


greg, curley95@attbi.com -- REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!
In 2002, everyone will discover that everyone else is using linux. ** Linux: Good, fast AND cheap. ** Failure is not an option: It comes bundled with Windows. ** "Two rules to success in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know." - Sassan Tat
New Good Job.
I would add just one thing: Get Help.

Norm, I fully echo Thane's post, been thinking about writing something similar myself the past few days. Like Thane, and you, I've been there. I went through some major changes about 4 years ago. It was hard, DAMN it was hard.

Yup, life sucks, in fact it's downright hard. Noone ever said it would be easy.

Bad things happen.

Bad things will continue to happen; To me, to you, to everyone you know.

The difference in life is how you DEAL with it. Not WHO or WHAT caused it, but how YOU deal with it.

Blame will get you nowhere. You can rant and rave about how much your past employer screwed you over, but it's not going to change ANYTHING. And change, my friend, is what you need to do. Notice I said YOU, not your previous employer, not anyone else.

Why? Quite simply, again as Thane said, because when you get right down to it, the ONLY thing you have any control over is yourself.

Here's a simple saying (originally a prayer from Alcoholics Anonymous) called the Serenity Prayer that about sums it up:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Think about it.

Finally, Norm..get some help. I'm not talking about medical help either. Stay away from psychiatrists. Find a good counselor..check with your employer, your church, your friends, heck even check online. But do find someone. A good counselor will help you to understand yourself, help you work through whatever underlying discombobulations (is that a word? If it isn't it should be :)) there are, and help you to break out of your comfort zone and make these changes.

Medicine can be a wonderful thing, and can help...hell, I was on prozac for a couple years, but need nothing now. However, the psyche cannot be ignored and unless it's fixed, all the chemicals in world won't help you.

Good luck to you, Norman King. It's my hope we've pushed you enough to start a journey that you won't regret.

Peace




aside to Thane: my wife graduates with her bachelor's in Psych in May (yay!). She currently has a 3.97 GPA (yay yay!) so she may make Summa cum Laude (yay yay yay!). I'm so proud of her! She's worked her ASS off to get there, and she's done well :) She'll be starting on her Master's in January, she wants to take a semester or two off, working full time and school full time have her quite burned out.
-----
Steve
New Going through hell in my own way, too
The past couple of years have been el nutzo on me, but I take responsibility for what I have done to make it so. I don't think I've put up very many whining posts. Norm, if you are in any way similar in real life to what you appear to be online, it is not entirely surprising that employers might treat you poorly.
Where each demon is slain, more hate is raised, yet hate unchecked also multiplies. - L. E. Modesitt, from his Recluse series
New I've been to hell many times
and it just keeps getting worse. I imagine that hell is just a state of mind where the brain malfunctions and becomes miserable all the time.

Many coworkers shared my view, at least they told me so at lunch. So many, in fact, that management had enacted a "Zero Tolerance" policy towards negatism. If you complained about how bad things are, you are escourted to the door and told to go away. This, my friends, shows just how anal management really is at my old employer. If a majority of the employees are complaining, that means something is majorily wrong if morale is that low. Management should fix the problem, instead of trying to cover it up and sweep it under the rug, and then blame the employees for it. I've never seen management take responsibility for anything, unless someone else did it right, and they will take credit for someone else's good work. If something goes horribly wrong, management does not take any resposibility for it.

"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
New Believe it or not, Norm...
Having a bad job isn't Hell. Depression can be, in some cases.

Things can always be worse. There are many, many people out there who have had horrible things happen to them and yet they still have a positive outlook on life.

Rather gruesome story follows, but it has an inspiring ending.














There was a story on "As it Happens" on CBC radio (via NPR) a week or so ago. I don't remember the date or I'd dig up the link [link|http://radio.cbc.ca/cgi-bin/insite/BrowseDir.cgi?Program=AS+IT+HAPPENS&Month=-1&Day=-1&Year=2002|here]. (I may have misremembered some of the details below.) They interviewed a fellow and his doctor. He, a 60-ish man living in Alabama IIRC, worked in his garden one day and then came inside and took a nap. When he woke up a few hours later he knew something was very wrong with his face, so his wife took him to a hospital.

He was rushed to a larger city hospital because he had contracted some very rare fungus that was attacking his face. There was no way to kill the fungus, and if something drastic wasn't done it would quickly work its way to his brain and kill him.

Special plastic surgery was done on him.

The fungus attacked his eyes, facial muscles, and just about everything we think of as making up a face. It had to be removed.

It took about 2 years of surgery for the doctors to stabilize him and construct a framwork on his skull so that an artificial face could be constructed.

In the interview, the man was quite happy with his new face. He was able to talk in a surprisingly clear voice. He is, of course, blind. But in spite of his tribulations, he's still happy to be alive and enjoying his life. It's hard not to imagine being bitter after simply working in the garden for a few hours and losing one's face, isn't it? But he's not.

This is just one recent example.

Be thankful for the good things in your life, and - for your own sake - please stop obsessing about the past.

Good luck.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Sort of like count your blessings?
I've had about a mind-fungus eat away at my mind and mental health. I am still recovering from it. That mind-fungus was given to me by my former employer in the form of super-stress. I have still not recovered from it.

I've made it as clear as I can, my depression keeps making me slip back into a negative mindset. If there was a button I could press to prevent it, I would happily push it. But there is no such button, and my mind is being slowly eaten away by this depression with no cure or hope in sight of ever being rid of it. I have no choice in the matter, I've done all I could to focus on the positive, and I have failed again and again. Just by existing I suffer, and I cannot find a way not to suffer. Again, this is not by my choice in any way, shape or form.

"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
New Stop blaming the outside world
If you want to be a victim, you can be. Forever.

Being a victim sucks. I should know. Been there, done that. If I no longer bear visible emotional scars, it is only because I did something about them.

It doesn't matter what your employer did to you. You aren't there any more. You are living your life. And right now the only one who is doing you injury is you.

If you need help getting out of your pit, I would strongly suggest (based on the experience of friends) swallowing your pride and getting a Prozac prescription. Certainly it will do more good than complaining, again, about people you aren't dealing with any more.

Cheers,
Ben
New I am not blaming the outside world
I am telling the truth about what happened and why I feel the way I do because of it. It is not the world's fault, it is the fault of those responsible for making the conditions that I had to work under, and I am still trying to get over it and apparently I cannot get over it.

Prozac would do me no good, as I have been suicidal, if I take the prozac I will make a suicide attempt. My doctor had advised me in the past not to take it, and had put me in different antidepressants. Currently I am on paxil, which is not doing very good.

Oh but I am dealing with them everything I try to get a new job and they have to contact my former employer. I am not sure what they are saying, but I got a good idea that it is not positive and a big fat lie, whatever it is? It seems that potential employers after contacting me former employer, tell me that they do not want to hire me. So yes, they are still making my life hell, even if I am not working for them anymore.

"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
New Bullsh*t
You are blaming your current problems on powers beyond your control. Namely a group of assholes who are no longer in your life.

Until you figure out that they are no longer in your life, you won't be able to get on with rebuilding living. And that sucks.

You have to learn to stop saying, "They did this to me..." Instead start accepting responsibility for your life. Yeah, the past sucks. Yeah, nothing is going to make the past any better. But making yourself forever a victim of the past will certainly make the future a lot worse.

It is your life. I won't talk any more about this because if you want to fuck it up, there isn't a hell of a lot I can do about it. But every time you continue to whine, a little bell goes off inside my head saying, "I see that Norm hasn't taken responsibility for his life yet." And I feel no sympathy.

Regards,
Ben
New Bullsh*t mark 2
I beg to differ, I have taken responsibility for my life, but I have not taken responsibility for the actions of a bunch of *ssholes that did me wrong. Did I, or did I not take that f*cking $9/hr job when I could have just as easily have said no to it and stay at home and wallow in my own self pity? Did I or did I not talk to my doctor's office and try to schedule an appointment, only to find out that my doctor's schedule conflicts with mine? For the past three weeks I have been taking DSL classes to learn how to support DSL for a local TELCO and I didn't miss a single class. If I wasn't responsible, I wouldn't have even bothered to show up, or even accept the job.

I filled out the f*cking paperwork to move my 401K and Profit Sharing to an IRA and the *ssholes at my former employer still have not sent the paperwork back to move it yet. So I still have to deal with them. I have the return receipt, and someone from the mailroom signed for it. They also sent some of my stuff to my older address and I had to track it down, despite my current address being in their computers and on my old paychecks. Plus I am not sure what they are telling other employers, but whatever it is, they are costing me job interviews. So, yes, I am still dealing with those *ssholes!

"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
New ????
Norm,

Why don't you have a friend pretend to be a hiring manager and call you previous employers to see what they are saying. I've know some recruiters do this to make sure only the best references are presented to their clients. It might help to know if they are just giving you a so-so recommendation vs. out-right lying about your work performance. Just keep in mind that anything less than a glowing recommendation is enough to kill the hiring process IMHO, especially in the current economic climate where most job openings are innudated with resumes.
Ray
New I wanted to do that
but usually they screen their calls via voicemail and call the company back. So if Desitter or someone else calls them, they will have to leave a callback number.

Anyone interested in calling my former employer about getting info about me, and then telling me what they said, can email me at nking at bigfoot.com and I will give them the corp phone # and the people to talk to. Pretend that you are doing an interview of me, and need to check with my former employer.

I had a recruited that was going to call them and then tell me what they said, but he isn't returning my phone calls for some reason?

"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
New IF you can...
get an emergency appointment with your doctor and take a LONG lunch. Take it man you need it you sound like I did a while back. I could not get out from underneath it. It took medications. My brother in-law had a simlar thing, but he only needed medication to bring himm back to normal and is no longer taking medication. As he now able to maintain the Balance. Just not able to bring the imbalance back to balance.

Get an appointment do it now (or at 8AM when you Dr. opens), the sooner the better, It could be as soon as two0three days when you start seeing (and feeling ) a change. My first Rx took 2 days before it started to make a difference. I could not put a finger on it how I felt, but the change was going on and I could tell. Can't explain the feeling, but it wasn't that gnawing feeling I know you have. IF nothing else the gnawing feeling was subsiding.

Took a long time for me to get to a point where I felt good, can;t say as though I really feel the best I can. Being 315 now (loosing weight now down from 370 recently), I can say it mae s a big diff. I plan on loosing another 120ish pounds. I have read and taken to heart [link|http://www.fourmilab.to/hackdiet/|this document]. It really makes for a boring read to those not in the industry fo IT or technical areas, but really helped me. Just read it and I mean read it too, don't just glance and skim through it.

Norm, get some help to bring your life back in order, an osteopathic doctor is what I have and that extra schooling the doctor has, has paid off in many ways for me. He can prescribe more thing in better doses than most doctors an can even get "alternative" treatments approved by most insurance programs.

Fare thee well and much luck to you in your endeavors.

greg, curley95@attbi.com -- REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!
In 2002, everyone will discover that everyone else is using linux. ** Linux: Good, fast AND cheap. ** Failure is not an option: It comes bundled with Windows. ** "Two rules to success in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know." - Sassan Tat
New I have tried to do that
but he works from 1pm to 5pm for officer hours from Mon - Thurs, and makes his morning rounds at hospitals and is unreachable. I only get a half hour for lunch and it takes 20 minutes to drive there and 20 minutes to drive back and however long the appointment will last? He is off on Fridays, and I am off on Fridays. He doesn't work weekends. So basically either I have to quit my job, or find another doctor. I have no comp time, or paid/unpaid time off until two months from now.

Even since I was put on this paxil and other medications, I have been gaining weight. I was 240 when I was in the hospital in August, and I am about 275 now. I've gained over 30 pounds since then. I have been basically starving myself, avoiding meat when I could, and watching what I eat.

"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
New *SHRUGS*
Well, okay...

Guess you are destined to spiral down until SOMEONE else picks up your pieces.

Special arrangements, are just that. Make them. Get it done. Stop putting up your own road blocks. 'Cause I know no-one in your immediate family, to help you out, I cannot do anything else.

Good luck, I have given as much as I can.

greg, curley95@attbi.com -- REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!
In 2002, everyone will discover that everyone else is using linux. ** Linux: Good, fast AND cheap. ** Failure is not an option: It comes bundled with Windows. ** "Two rules to success in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know." - Sassan Tat
New My opinion exactly
I long ago learned the hard way that nobody else can solve my problems for me, and then learned that I can't solve anyone else's either.

It took multiple painful iterations for me to absorb each lesson, and I see little point in repeating the experience.

Cheers,
Ben
New Try again
and again and again for as long as it takes. Quit making excuses.
With this much manure around, there must be a pony somewhere.
New Ok then, here I go
I will write a letter of resignation to my current employer so I can get the time off to go and see my doctor and get my meds adjusted! The house, my career, and my finacial well being be dammed!

"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
New That's your only other option?
Get off your ass and quit whining. Find some other avenue. Find some other doctor. I am getting extremly tired of these false dilemmas you constantly bring up when someone challenges you to change. The "poor little me" act is wearing very thin my friend and I, for one, will not be giving you much more thought.

Get your head out of your ass, quit whining, get help.
With this much manure around, there must be a pony somewhere.
New I am not in my right mind
I just went and fucking quit after you told me to take action and I damn well took fucking action! My doctor didn't have any appointments until May, and told me to check myself into a hospital because I am depressed and suicidal. So I will do that. I am tired of all the bullshit that people are giving me and I will either get better or end my life!

Please tell that law firm I used to work for that is paying you to harass me online (your handle looks very simular to one in their list of "schill" accounts that they used to harass people online and spread false info about rivals and other parties in lawsuits). Tell them to stop it or I will take legal actions against them!

If you do not hear from me, I will either be in a mental hospital, dead, or living homeless.

I am just tired of living!

"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
New change docs, call around for a free clinic
try the public health department see if they know of any. Teaching hospitals usually have stuff like that. They get to experiment on you and it doesnt cost you a dime.
thanx,
bill
"I'm selling a hammer," he says. "They can beat nails with it, or their dog."
Richard Eaton spy software innovator
New I have looked
and I have not found anything that is worthwhile. maybe I can find one after I get out of the hospital they are about to put me into?

Goodbye for now. I'm about to slash my wrists before they send someone over for me.

"Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
     Norm, I'm going to be bluntly honest here. - (inthane-chan) - (26)
         I am going to be blunty honest here as well - (nking) - (4)
             Nope, you aren't going to get better over night. - (inthane-chan)
             As a 30 year Chronic Severe Depression in.... - (folkert) - (2)
                 It may mean that I have to quit my current job - (nking) - (1)
                     It may mean that should put... - (folkert)
         Good Job. - (Steve Lowe)
         Going through hell in my own way, too - (wharris2) - (19)
             I've been to hell many times - (nking) - (18)
                 Believe it or not, Norm... - (Another Scott) - (17)
                     Sort of like count your blessings? - (nking) - (16)
                         Stop blaming the outside world - (ben_tilly) - (5)
                             I am not blaming the outside world - (nking) - (4)
                                 Bullsh*t - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                                     Bullsh*t mark 2 - (nking) - (2)
                                         ???? - (rsf) - (1)
                                             I wanted to do that - (nking)
                         IF you can... - (folkert) - (9)
                             I have tried to do that - (nking) - (8)
                                 *SHRUGS* - (folkert) - (1)
                                     My opinion exactly - (ben_tilly)
                                 Try again - (Silverlock) - (5)
                                     Ok then, here I go - (nking) - (4)
                                         That's your only other option? - (Silverlock) - (1)
                                             I am not in my right mind - (nking)
                                         change docs, call around for a free clinic - (boxley) - (1)
                                             I have looked - (nking)

Whoa-ho-ho, nice shootin', Tex!
80 ms