IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New They're starting to recognize
that Bush isn't willing to lose....regardless of the cost....

    to him...

        or the Republican party
New ...or the USA.
New Not so, if Glenn Greenwald remains as sane as usual -
Complete with a few stats - in peculiar .jpg form. [link|http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/07/16/mccain/index.html?source=newsletter| Salon].
Monday July 16, 2007 09:36 EST
The GOP is the party of the Iraq war


(updated below - updated again)

A new prong of conventional wisdom has arisen that the prime reason for the collapse of John McCain's presidential campaign is his vigorous support for the war in Iraq. Arianna Huffington became the latest pundit to [link|http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/mccains-fall-a-warning-t_b_56291.html| spout this reasoning, when she wrote today]:

John McCain's cratering campaign is an object lesson in how to kill a candidacy in three simple steps: 1) locate the biggest foreign policy disaster in U.S. history 2) embrace it 3) implode. (Bonus step: spend money like you are Paul Bremmer).

McCain's fate should be a warning to all Republicans seeking office in 2008: continue to back the president's war policy at your own risk.

She goes on to claim that McCain's transformation from front-runner to also-ran occurred when he "decided to go all-in on Iraq, anointing himself head cheerleader for the surge," and that "the effect was similar to tying an anchor to his poll numbers and throwing them overboard."

This is wrong on several levels, and independently, it is a counter-productive theme to be peddling. In fact, the opposite is true: no presidential candidate can possibly hope to win the GOP nomination unless he fervently supports the war in Iraq.

It is not support for the Iraq war which dooms a GOP presidential candidacy, but the opposite: any real questioning of the wisdom of the war or any agitating for withdrawal or opposition to Bush's commitment would immediately and single-handedly destroy the viability of a GOP candidacy. Ask Ron Paul, or Chuck Hagel, or even Sam Brownback, whose flagging campaign has [link|http://www2.ljworld.com/blogs/kansas_congress/2007/jan/11/surge/| triggered the wrath of the base] despite his radical social conservatism as a result of his ongoing questioning of Bush's Iraq policy.

The war in Iraq remains popular with the GOP base. They want to stay and keep waging war. They would immediately turn against anyone who advocated withdrawal or even questioned the wisdom of staying. The Republican Party continues to be the Party of the Iraq War, and -- directly contrary to the conventional wisdom that is arising -- loyal support for the Iraq War is an absolute pre-requisite for winning the nomination.

In fact, the only praise McCain has received over the last several months from the GOP's base is due to his unwavering support for the war. McCain's candidacy is failing not because of excessive support for the Right's war in Iraq; that was the only thing keeping it afloat. Instead, it is due to his excessive deviation from the Right's mandated views -- on torture, on McCain-Feingold, and especially on immigration.

To claim that McCain's unapologetic support of the Iraq War is what destroyed his candidacy is to misapprehend completely the nature of the Republican Party base. What they demand, first and foremost, is unwavering loyalty to the Cause, and that Cause is shaped predominantly by Middle East militarism, beginning with Iraq.

Dispositive proof of how false is this new conventional wisdom comes in the form of the positions of the other leading GOP candidates, who are at least as supportive as McCain is of Bush's policy in Iraq, if not more so. This, for instance, is what Fred Thompson said in March when interviewed by Chris Wallace on Fox News:

WALLACE: What would you do now in Iraq?

THOMPSON: I would do essentially what the president's doing.

And here is Rudy Giuliani, with his best friend Sean Hannity, back in April, mouthing as aggressive a pro-Bush, pro-Iraq war case as he can muster:

HANNITY: Let me ask you. Look, we're watching almost like a game of chicken being played in Washington right now over the supplemental funding bill for the Iraq war and Afghanistan war.

GIULIANI: It's a shame.

HANNITY: Well, Harry Reid literally said today if the president doesn't agree to timetables, that he may go along with Senator Russ Feingold's proposal and defund the war in 120 days.

GIULIANI: It would be a terrible mistake. If the president does what he says he's going to do which is veto the legislation, then -- then they really should pass some kind of a funding mechanism and allow the president to try to get this strategy right with General Petraeus.

It isn't right to kind of reverse the strategy on the president. I understand they have the constitutional authority to do it. I think if they -- if the president vetoes it, he's got -- I don't know if he has two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, five, some number of weeks where he could -- he could continue to fund under existing appropriations. He had the inherent authority to do that.

But then there would come the point where he couldn't. And I think that would just be a terrible mistake for them to do that directly or indirectly.

HANNITY: Have the Democrats become the party of surrender in the war?

GIULIANI: Sure.

HANNITY: But how would you deal with that if you're president?

GIULIANI: Well, I think what they're doing is unprecedented in war. Find me another time that an army or a nation announced their retreat in advance and handed their enemy a written timetable?

[. . .]

The Republican Party is still wedded -- they are irreversibly wedded -- to the Iraq War, and it is ill-advised to help them shield themselves from its fallout by claiming that leading GOP presidential candidates are suffering due to their support for that war. That claim is simply false. Many things killed McCain's candidacy among the GOP faithful -- mostly his blasphemies in questioning their orthodoxies. But his unquestioning support for the Iraq War is shared by all of the leading GOP candidates and is an absolute prerequisite for any candidate to get that party's nomination.

[More . . .]
It'd be nice to imagine that some normal neuronal activity occasionally occurs within the Neoconman jelloware, that they alter mindsets a tad, when a large amount of disappointing experience seeps in. But it would be wrong to believe that imagination.
(As anyone who met My Gramma would have seen, immediately. John Birch Society still has liff in this former republic-Light.) The Plurality of the Contemptible? has a nice ring tuit.

New Not that simple
The rise of Ron Paul makes that clear. Ron Paul is super hard right, except he is anti-war. And he has become the outsider's candidate.

The Republicans are between a rock and a hard place on Iraq and Bush. If they support either they loose support among the majority of the Republicans, because the general body of Republicans is anti-war and want a change from Bush at this point. But if they go against the war or Bush they anger a small party core that is pro-war at any cost. This group is small, but made up of party activists, money backers and other key party members. And it isn't something they can waffle or avoid, they have to be either pro-war or anti-war, either pro-Bush or anti-Bush.

This is exactly why no candidate is really popular on the Republican side. Nobody can satisfy both the party core and general body at the same time right now. Recent polls suggest that despite the number of candidates and debates, "none of the above" is still the most popular position among Republicans.

McCain has basically seen everything go wrong. Because his popularity was grounded in not following the party line, his sudden conversion to party loyalist has angered his fans. And the party loyalists remember his previous behavior and expect he will abandon the party line if elected.

Be pro-war, backing Bush and supporting conservative religion are all on this track. And all have crippled McCain but it is far too late for him to back track. At this point all he can do is keep his head low and hope the others crash.

Jay
New OT just checked ron paul website, he is a rightwingnut
not a libertarian at all.
thanx,
bill
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New And this surprises you because...?
The Republicans stopped having even a passing resemblance to Libertarianism years ago. They are straight up religious/behaviouralist fascists now.
New because I have heard him described as a libertarian on radio
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New He ran for President as a Libertarian in 1988.
New Yes he did
but its sort of like Lieberman threatening to be an independent. Paul has some libertarian points of view...but there are some stark differences too.

Take these positions


B1. What is the libertarian position on abortion?

Most libertarians are strongly in favor of abortion rights (the Libertarian Party often shows up at pro-rights rallies with banners that say "We're Pro-Choice on Everything!"). Many libertarians are personally opposed to abortion, but reject governmental meddling in a decision that should be private between a woman and her physician. Most libertarians also oppose government funding of abortions, on the grounds that "pro-lifers" should not have to subsidize with their money behavior they consider to be murder.

B2. What is the libertarian position on minority, gay & women's rights?

Libertarians believe that every human being is entitled to equality before the law and fair treatment as an individual responsible for his or her own actions. We oppose racism, sexism, and sexual-preference bigotry, whether perpetrated by private individuals or (especially) by government. We reject racial discrimination, whether in its ugly traditional forms or in its newer guises as Affirmative Action quotas and "diversity" rules.

We recognize that there will always be bigotry and hatred in the world, just as there will always be fear and stupidity; but one cannot use laws to force understanding any more than one can use laws to force courage or intelligence. The only fair laws are those that never mention the words "black" or "white"; "man" or "woman"; "gay" or "straight". When people use bigotry as an excuse to commit force or fraud, it is the act itself which is the crime, and deserves punishment, not the motive behind it.


RP wants to legislate life at conception...clearly at odds with #1...though he couches his discussions in the lib ideals of "its none of the feds business".

And he is completely opposed to gay marriage and is rumored to have supported the push to a constitutional amendment.

Theres alot more...but easy to disprove RP as Libertarian. He really isn't even very close.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New They really only had one common platform item even then
which was small gov't.

Since the repo's can't continue on that front (instead opting to talk about fiscal responsibility and then screwing that up), they tried to appeal to lib's on the "personal responsibility" front.

Now they can't do that either..so you are correct...there isn't even a resemblance...except maybe if you ask about taxes...both parties will tell you to lower/eliminate them.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
     you know when a repo is in trouble - (boxley) - (10)
         They're starting to recognize - (Simon_Jester) - (9)
             ...or the USA. -NT - (CRConrad)
             Not so, if Glenn Greenwald remains as sane as usual - - (Ashton) - (7)
                 Not that simple - (JayMehaffey) - (6)
                     OT just checked ron paul website, he is a rightwingnut - (boxley) - (5)
                         And this surprises you because...? - (jake123) - (4)
                             because I have heard him described as a libertarian on radio -NT - (boxley) - (2)
                                 He ran for President as a Libertarian in 1988. -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                     Yes he did - (bepatient)
                             They really only had one common platform item even then - (bepatient)

Only a Stephen Hawking vs. Larry Flynt joust could compare in terms of universal significance.
235 ms