*sigh* History.

Post #28,254 by Brandioch 2/13/02 1:50:15 PM Reply	sigh History. Simplistic? Depends upon how you look at it. How the ending of WWI was handled was simplistic. Which led to WWII. Which included the death of millions. Eventually, WWII was ended. But we had learned about "simplistic" solutions by then. So better solutions were considered. Today, Germany and Japan are our allies. Big picture time, people.
Post #28,262 by marlowe 2/13/02 2:14:59 PM Reply	History indeed. Germany and Japan didn't become our allies because we were surrender monkeys. They became our allies because we taught them it was a bad idea to be our enemies. And if the handling of WWI caused WWI, what caused WWI? Brandioch, you really need to work on this cause and effect thing. You're just not getting it. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
Post #28,270 by boxley 2/13/02 3:24:35 PM Reply	fscking with the balkans started ww1 (doomed to repeat etc) "If you're half-evil, nothing soothes you more than to think the person you are opposed to is totally evil." Norman Mailer
Post #28,278 by mmoffitt 2/13/02 3:48:22 PM Reply	Solution: Re-instate the Soviet Union. We need their "peace keeping" expertise. bcnu, Mikem
Post #28,274 by Brandioch 2/13/02 3:41:23 PM Reply	I think the term is "WTF". Ummmm, didn't we WIN the First World War? Germany and Japan didn't become our allies because we were surrender monkeys. They became our allies because we taught them it was a bad idea to be our enemies. Sooooooooooooo, we didn't teach Germany this during WWI? Yet Germany came back for WWII. So, I'm a bit confused on your logic here. If we beat them, then they will be our allies. But, when we beat Germany, they became our enemy again. There's a disconnect in your train of thought. As for what started WWI, I think Bill has correctly explained that. But, the question I have for >YOU< is WHY is that important? I'm showing that >YOUR< "logic" is flawed. The same as the "logic" in that article. It is "simplistic" to get into a fight. Solving the >PROBLEM< is complex. You can get into war after war after war and >NEVER< solve the problem. You just keep raising generations who have a reason to hate.
Post #28,277 by mmoffitt 2/13/02 3:47:27 PM Reply	Catch "West Wing" a week ago? One of the characters (some communications/speech writer kind of guy) kept saying "They will like us when we win" over and over. [MIND: I am NOT taking this position] bcnu, Mikem
Post #28,316 by Andrew Grygus 2/13/02 11:30:03 PM Reply	Germany was beat . . . . (in their eyes) by an internal socialist revolution right when the military thought it was on the eve of victory. The American WWI role is much exaggerated in American history, and especially in Marine Corps history. the Germans held their fire at Belleau Wood because they were sure it had to be a trick (and were looking for the real attack). They knew *Nobody* could still be stupid enough to do the slow walk. The Marines were not doing the slow walk on their way back out of the woods. Basically, the Germans felt betrayed and stabbed in the back, not defeated fair and square, thus WWII. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #28,338 by wharris2 2/14/02 8:25:54 AM Reply	Re: Germany was beat . . Betrayed and stabbed in the back? Nay. The Russian front had collapsed. Germany won there. Whatever your interpretation of Belleau Wood, the Americans added resources to the French and English who, without said resources, would have been hard pressed to continue the war for much longer. All sides were out of resources to continue the war; the US just applied a little weight to the one side and tipped the balance. The betrayal and stabbing in the back occurred at Versailes. Well, not really a betrayal, it was more a holding hostage and then stabbing in the back. Historical note: in the early days of the war, there were as many Germany supporters as there were English/France supporters in the US. The sinking of the Lusitania turned the tide against Germany, although there are good arguments to be made that it was transporting ammunition and/or weapons and was a legitimate target. Most of the work of government does not need to be done. - Attributed to Ronald Reagan, under whose administration the government expanded, of course.
Post #28,331 by gtall 2/14/02 7:04:23 AM Reply	Re: I think the term is "WTF". WWI was not really caused by some Serb nationalist. Sheesh, you'd think he operated in a vacuum. The war was going to start regardless, any old spark would have done the trick. The Austro-Hungarian empire was weak and needed something, anything to attempt to regain power. The Ottoman empire by that time was in a similar position. Russia under the Tsars was in ferment. The Germans hoped to make their push for hegemony in Europe. The French were dead set against that after the wars of the previous century. Britain was itching for fight too. Gerard Allwein

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