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New Pan recommendations...
We have a bunch of Calphalon right now... much of it nonstick, which worked great for years but is now degrading due to my wife's rather vigorous use of utensils. We also have an aluminum reducing saucepan that has had the galvanized coating stripped off by tomato sauces.

So the question is, what do you get to replace them?

Right now we have:

15" big-arsed straight-sided pan. Great for frying lots of stuff at once. nonstick.
12" sloped "every day" pan. Good for frying smaller things and for frittata. nonstick.
12" straight-sided pan. ditto everyday pan. nonstick.
4.5-quart steaming combo pot. nonstick.
8-quart boilin' pot. nonstick.
2.5-quart sauce pan. nonstick.
mumble-quart reducing pan. galvanized.

Any suggestions for replacements? While we liked the Calphalon at first, the 15" pan is now slightly warped and the non-stick is coming off every pan we use daily. Only the boiling pot is ok. The handles on the straight-sided pans are nices, and we like the clear lids, but we're not happy with the coatings or the warping.

I forgot to add, we don't cook any meat. :-) Just sauces, pasta, fried stuff, soup, and so on.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Expand Edited by admin April 16, 2007, 10:28:50 PM EDT
New My $0.02.
I've got 3 Calphalon pans - 2 saucepans from Target with glass lids, one frypan from Amazon with a stainless lid. The Amazon pan is a 12", deep [link|http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AQHTW6/002-4553159-4208016|frypan] with an anodized coating and a non-stick interior. It has stainless steel handles and a stainless lid. It was only $26. It's a white-box thing that was made in China, but it does seem to be a genuine Calphalon pan. (It's not available now.)

The stainless coating isn't indestructable, but it's much better than what a similar sized frypan we got as a gift (from HSN) a few years ago.

In general, I think it's better to buy high-quality stuff that will last a long time than to buy cheaper stuff that has to be replaced every few years. But with non-stick pans, I'm not so sure. I can't see spending $100 or more for a non-stick skillet.

For frying, a machined cast iron skillet is hard to beat. For tomato sauces, that wouldn't work so well (it would lose its seasoning too easily). I generally heat up tomato sauces in an old brown glass Pyrex 3 quart sauce pan with lid in the microwave because it's too easy for me to burn it on our electric range. I'm not fan of enameled pans as they seem too easy to uglify. Similarly with copper and copper-bottomed pans.

I guess my bottom line is that I don't think an ideal set of cooking pans exists yet. In general, I'm happy with my Calphalon stuff, but I don't do much frying and the like. I also plan on replacing pans like that every few years.

I hope this helps a bit.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Re: My $0.02.
Thanks.

I don't think we're interested in anodized or nonstick coatings again. They go away too quickly. And while I like the lightness of the aluminum, the warped pan irritated me to no end.

The frypan you linked is exactly the one we have, except we have a glass lid. It was a great pan until the coating started to come off. Calphalon is too expensive to replace that often, too. The coup de grace came when my wife heated up egg-dipping wax in it (in containers, but apparently they leaked)... I took one look at the poor pan, with wax caught in the distressed non-stick bottom, and said, "New pan time. I'm not cleaning this shit."

Nonstick might be OK for a dedicated tomato sauce pan if I could get her to ease up on the stirring.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Get softer stirring utensils; wooden or plastic spoons etc.
[Edit: Ah, OK, you got that already... Sorry, hadn't read the whole thread as I wrote that. Still (as Greg seems to be implying), maybe wooden stuff is even softer than plastic?]
Expand Edited by CRConrad April 17, 2007, 02:18:43 AM EDT
New One more thing - Dishwashers are a no-no.
Very few non-stick pans are dishwasher safe. I'm sure you know that. :-)

There's a fairly good article on cookware from December 2005 at [link|http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/home-garden/cooking-cleaning/cookware-1205/cr-quick-recommendations/index.htm|Consumer Reports]. You may need to have a subscription to read it though.

Cheers,
Scott.
New If you don't have a subscription...
...It's extremely likely that your local library does.
-YendorMike

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
New Our pans have never seen the inside of one :-)
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New We have been replacing our Calphalon with...
Emeril's series of pans and pots and stuff. I don't know if Emeril's stuff is any better, but as for now, the non-stick is not a coating, but a surface treatment. It works really well and darkens the more you use it (evidently it is anodized). Make sure your wife uses ONLY wood or equivalent plastic utensils on them, metal is forbidden! His stainless stuff seems to be pretty good, though we only have one stainless pan, it seems almost to heavy.

The Calphalon stuff once replaced is then relegated to the "not nice to pans" cooking. We are in the process of getting carbon build-up on the Calphalon pans.

Just today, one older daycare kid fell on our 8qt(maybe larger) Calphalon pot on its side near the top, bending it, then cracked the top edge. Crap!

We still use Calphalon baking pans, mainly because they REALLY work nicely, generously built and proportioned. We haven't found any better for a similar price.

[link|http://www.emerilware.com/|http://www.emerilware.com/]
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New Thanks
The problem with anodized coatings (at least the Calphalon ones) is that acidic foods eat them off. :-P

She does use plastic utensils. She's just... vigorous...

We had to buy an electric toothbrush because she was brushing her gums into oblivion...
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Oh... I see.
Take Michelle out and get her some really nice Wooden utensils... with nice rubber handles. They are cheap and durable and wear away vs. the pot or pan.

Bed, Bath and Beyond has (if not, then had) a very nice selection of them. The wooden utensils IMO are by far better in most cases.

Though some people get weirded out by wood.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New I have the same stuff
but I'm pretty gentle with it and it is holding up really well. I can't think what I would get different unless I went to plain old cast iron. The calphs are what I have on the boat too - they save water big time because they clean up so easily.

Never use scrubbers - only soft sponges, and only wood or teflon utensils and they last fine in my experience.

-Todd



We posture as apostles of fair play, as good sportsmen, as professional knights-errant-- and we throw beer bottles at the umpire when he refuses to cheat for our side...We save the black-and-tan republics from their native [statesmen]--and flood them with "deserving" democrats of our own. We deafen the world with our whoops for liberty--and submit to laws that destroy our most sacred rights...We play policeman and Sunday-school superintendent to half of Christendom--and lynch a darky every two days in our own backyard.


H.L. Mencken, 1914
New First - I don't believe in coatings.
All coatings are strictly temporary and restrict how you can use your pans. There is one exception - even chefs who hate non-stick will keep one non-stick pan around for scrambled eggs.

In particular a wok should never be non-stick. Temperatures rise to the level where the coating starts to break down into toxic substances (actual tests by a magazine I get). I've never had trouble keeping my non-nonstick pans clean, and I'm a real stickler for very very clean.

For vegetarian cooking the first thing you should get is the Calphalon 13" wok. This is stainless - aluminum - stainless sandwich construction, practically indestructible and spreads heat extremely well. The bottom center is flat, but not too wide and the great heat conduction eliminates any problems. Fully round bottomed woks don't work well on American stoves.

Woks are great for cooking choy, spinach and other vegetables that start voluminous and wilt very much smaller. Rustle up a cover for it (I got a perfect fit cover from a local Asian market), and a grate for steaming (got it at same market).

After that a 2 quart and a 3-1/2 quart covered sauté pan. A shallow slope sided iron pan is better for actual sauté, but these are better for most uses. I also have a 5 quart which I use rather seldom but it's really handy when I do need it.

Sauté pans should be stainless - aluminum - stainless sandwich, though stainless inside and aluminum outside would work. The kind with a full wrap core is best for most uses, but you can get along with the lower cost slab bottom pan if of good quality and you are careful. With the slab bottom you'll get hot spots along the edges where the slab stops so you need to be more careful frying your onions. My 5 quart is a slab bottom but at that size it's not a problem - the edges are so far from the flame they're a bit cooler.

Slab bottom is best for long slow simmering, so my 5 and 8 quart soup pots are slab bottom.

For smaller saucepans (1-1/2, 2 quart) a full wrap core is essential - you just can't stand the hot spots at the edges, particularly when making sauces. Beware of cheap saucepans not heavy enough for their handles, they are dangerous.

A 3-1/2 quart saucepan with a steamer pan to sit on top of it is a really useful setup. Use it as a saucepan, use it as a steamer. In this size slab bottom will work plenty well enough.

For vegetarian you don't need them but for meat and fish you'd want a couple cast iron skillets (10 and 12 inch). Your sauté pans are just fine for vegetarian if of good quality.

Aluminum, anodized or not, has no place whatever in vegetarian cooking - too much acid involved and acid eats aluminum. For a while aluminum was considered a high risk factor for alzheimers, then it wasn't - but some researchers are still a bit suspicious of it. Of course aluminum is eaten even faster by alkali, but few foods are alkaline.

Personally, I don't consider aluminum cookware suitable for any purpose as I like to minimize extraneous metals in my diet.

I reject without consideration any pan with a glass lid. When I'm finishing up and ready to serve I'm moving fast and don't have time to tend to such things. Glass lids are heavy, prone to damage and to damaging other things by their weight. They're prone to slide off counters and whatever have you. A stainless lid is lightweight, easy to handle, easy to clean, tends to stay put even on uneven surfaces and is easy to clean.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Apart from the wok...
... do you have any specific suggestions with respect to brand?

And what's the best way to clean stainless?

Thanks.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Well, if cost is no object . . .
. . All-Clad, the outfit that pioneered explosive welding of stainless to aluminum for cookware is excellent. I have only one by them, a 2 quart sauté pan - Amazon wasn't carrying the full wrap core line of Cuisinart when I decided to upgrade that size from the slab bottom pan.

All else I have is Cuisinart, both the slab bottom and full wrap. Their quality is excellent and it has been available at very good pricing on Amazon.

I have never had trouble cleaning these devices, except once when I practically melted one. Kitchen cleanser does an excellent job (I use Pro-Pride from Smart & Final which I prefer to Comet). I use Super Scour sponge pads which are terry cloth on one side and plastic mesh on the other.

After a while you may notice a slight dull film on the cooking surface of your wok and/or sauté pans. This should be removed with warm vinegar. I do this about once a month on the most heavily used pans. Any mineral deposits in pans used for steaming can be similarly removed by heating some water with vinegar mixed in, then washing with cleanser.

Pots used for boiling water will develop a few tiny white spots in the bottom. Some will be minerals removable with vinegar, some will be cavitation spots that don't come off, but they cause no trouble.

One thing I like about the stainless surface is that it is easily cleaned without worrying about damage, and when it's really clean you can see that it's really clean.

Previous to moving to this kind of cookware I was using enameled iron.


[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Cost is no object if it's going to last.
I'll look into them; thanks.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Oh, they'll last all right.
Even the one I accidentally subjected to extreme overheat was basically undamaged and did not come unlaminated - that explosive welding is good stuff. The only actual damage was minor pitting caused by ginger of which there was quite a bit in the pan - sulphur compounds eat metal, and at extremely high temperatures they'll even pit stainless steel.

Incidentally, if you accidentally leave a cast iron pan with water in it overnight, and there are bits of ginger in it, you will have some very significant pits in the metal by morning.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New This stuff?
[link|http://www.amazon.com/b/ref=amb_link_1342232_26/002-4858354-5232803?ie=UTF8&node=556948&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=0K9KCTFTT8BQ9SGP2G95&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=237091001&pf_rd_i=555018|http://www.amazon.co...01&pf_rd_i=555018]

It doesn't seem any more expensive than the Calphalon we've purchased in the past...
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New pay that much for cookware? Dont they have yard sales there?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New If someone else didn't want the pan...
... why the hell would I want it?
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Divorced gourmet chefs are your friend... ;-)
New gramp bought gran a $350 cook set 20 years ago
they eat the early bird special at the diner every night now because its a bitch cooking for 2. Same way for cast Iron pots. Well maintained pots and pans at a fraction of the cost of new. Estate sales are good. We are talking about a holder of cooking food that heats evenly, not a fucking picasso :-)
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New Well, here's the thing:
Time to find it online and click the button: an hour.

Time to comb dozens of garage sales to find something that might be suitable, but with unknown construction, utility, and provenance: ...

Free time I or my wife have to do either of these: not much at all.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New :-( scragging thru other peoples junk is a sport (to me)
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New I'd rather play soccer with the 3yo
Which is exactly what we did tonight.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Yes, that's the stuff.
All-Clad has several lines including higher priced ones with copper layers and slightly lower priced ones with aluminum exteriors, but the three ply aluminum core line is what I've used in both All-Clad and Cuisinart and have no performance complaints with either brand.

Again, full wrap core is best for sauté pans and essential for smaller saucepans, but for 5 quart and larger stock pots the slab bottom is fine, actually better for some uses because the aluminum layer is much thicker preventing hot spots if you're using only the center flame for simmering.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New No, this.
[link|http://www.chefsresource.com/all-clad-copper-core-14-piece-cookware-set.html|$1900, 14 piece set].

Yikes!

Cheers,
Scott.
New Strangely . . .
Copper made into a pipe costs a few bucks for a 10 foot length.

About the same amount of copper stamped into the shape of a sauce pan costs hundreds of dollars.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Yow!
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New But, but, you're ignoring gift Panini Set and free shiping!
:)
Alex

When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
New agree with andrew on the non stick stuff, as for cleaning
put water and soap in the pan, bring it boiling, let sit for a few minutes and a soft brush and cloth will clean it up quite nicely. Who has professionally washed pots in the past.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New Just a couple of months ago...
...Beth decided that we needed new pans. The order of the day was a set of [link|http://www.calphalon.com/calphalon/consumer/products/subProductLine.jhtml;jsessionid=U42GREUFKDRWACQHUB2CHPQKA4QGIJCK?catId=CLCat100145|Calphalon One Infused Anodized] cookware. So we now have like 3 or 4 skillets, 3 saucepans, and what I would consider a semi-wok -- they call it the stir fry pan.

This required that we also purchase some new [link|http://www.williams-sonoma.com/shop/ctl/ctli/ctlutli/index.cfm?flash=on&cm_ref=http%3A//www.williams-sonoma.com/shop/ctl/index.cfm%3Fcm%255Ftype%3Dlnav%26flash%3Don%26cm_ref%3Dhttp%253A//www.williams-sonoma.com/%253Fflash%253Don|utensils], as metal utensils are not kind to nonstick surfaces. So we picked up some [link|http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/cw306/index.cfm?pkey=cctlutli&flash=on&cm_ref=http%3A//www.williams-sonoma.com/shop/ctl/ctli/ctlutli/index.cfm%3Fflash%3Don%26cm_ref%3Dhttp%253A//www.williams-sonoma.com/shop/ctl/index.cfm%253Fcm%25255Ftype%253Dlnav%2526flash%253Don%2526cm_ref%253Dhttp%25253A//www.williams-sonoma.com/%25253Fflash%25253Don|silicone tongs] (ours are black) and [link|http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/cw166/index.cfm?pkey=cctlutli&flash=on&cm_ref=http%3A//www.williams-sonoma.com/shop/ctl/ctli/ctlutli/index.cfm%3Fflash%3Don%26cm_ref%3Dhttp%253A//www.williams-sonoma.com/shop/ctl/index.cfm%253Fcm%25255Ftype%253Dlnav%2526flash%253Don%2526cm_ref%253Dhttp%25253A//www.williams-sonoma.com/%25253Fflash%25253Don|flexible spatulas] along with [link|http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/sku3414927/index.cfm?pkey=cctlutli&flash=on&cm_ref=http%3A//www.williams-sonoma.com/shop/ctl/ctli/ctlutli/index.cfm%3Fflash%3Don%26cm_ref%3Dhttp%253A//www.williams-sonoma.com/shop/ctl/index.cfm%253Fcm%25255Ftype%253Dlnav%2526flash%253Don%2526cm_ref%253Dhttp%25253A//www.williams-sonoma.com/%25253Fflash%25253Don|other nonstick utensils].

Of course, if you prefer wood, they have those, too (see utensils link above, for example).

It's important that you don't store your nonstick cookware directly on top of each other. We use paper towels in between each pan to act as a buffer. If not, the bottom of one pan will scrape off the nonstick coating from the pan beneath it. And that's just bad.
-YendorMike

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
New Re: Just a couple of months ago...
We use thin sheets of packing foam between the ones we stack. Most of the pans have their own space in the cupboard.

Again, we supposedly do everything correctly with our nonstick: teflon or wood utensils, soft sponge to clean, and foam protectors. They still start to degrade.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Re: Just a couple of months ago...
Most of the pans have their own space in the cupboard.
Shhh! Don't let Beth hear you say that! She's already complaining about how we don't have enough cupboard space. But I don't have a spare $50k to completely remodel the kitchen at this time...

-YendorMike

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
New We have a giant corner cupboard.
*without* a turntable. Only way to fly.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Got a picture?
Just curious. We have two warped turntables mounted on 90 degree doors and it seems like about 50% of the space is wasted. Is yours something like [link|http://www.oldhouseweb.com/stories/Detailed/13260.shtml|this]?

[edit:] Better linky.

Cheers,
Scott.
Expand Edited by Another Scott April 17, 2007, 12:05:22 PM EDT
New Re: Got a picture?
Not yet... I'll try to scare one up.

Basically, the cabinet fills the whole corner, and the door is a double hinged door that folds out of the way. As a result, the corner is square, not angled. Inside are two shelves with a square cutout for the door.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Ah. I can picture it; no need to dig one up.
New I can't; dig away, First One!
New We went for these:
My parents bought us a set for our birthdays (which are conveniently within 2 days of each other).

[link|http://www.amazon.com/Cuisinart-MCP-12-Multiclad-Stainless-Steel-12-Piece/dp/B0007KQZWU/ref=sr_1_1/002-5970948-1528825?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1179264402&sr=1-1|http://www.amazon.co...1179264402&sr=1-1]

As a start, at least. We'll also be getting the Calphalon wok.

So far I really like the pans, although there are already some faint scratches on the bottom after one use: I made scrambled eggs with a plastic spatula and cleaned the pan with a nylon scraper.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Expand Edited by admin May 15, 2007, 05:18:41 PM EDT
New Those are good ones.
I have several pieces from that line and am entirely satisfied with them. Those faint "scratches" have no depth and do no harm, they're really just faint marks on the surface and there will eventually be plenty of them.

I do most of my work with wooden utensils but use a stainless turner and a stainless serving spoon often enough to confirm there will be no damage. My heavily used 3qt sauté has hundreds, maybe thousands of those marks and they have degraded neither performance nor cleanability.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New That's good to know.
My wife was a bit irritated. :-)
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
     Pan recommendations... - (admin) - (40)
         My $0.02. - (Another Scott) - (5)
             Re: My $0.02. - (admin) - (4)
                 Get softer stirring utensils; wooden or plastic spoons etc. -NT - (CRConrad)
                 One more thing - Dishwashers are a no-no. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                     If you don't have a subscription... - (Yendor)
                     Our pans have never seen the inside of one :-) -NT - (admin)
         We have been replacing our Calphalon with... - (folkert) - (2)
             Thanks - (admin) - (1)
                 Oh... I see. - (folkert)
         I have the same stuff - (tuberculosis)
         First - I don't believe in coatings. - (Andrew Grygus) - (18)
             Apart from the wok... - (admin) - (17)
                 Well, if cost is no object . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (15)
                     Cost is no object if it's going to last. - (admin) - (1)
                         Oh, they'll last all right. - (Andrew Grygus)
                     This stuff? - (admin) - (12)
                         pay that much for cookware? Dont they have yard sales there? -NT - (boxley) - (6)
                             If someone else didn't want the pan... - (admin) - (5)
                                 Divorced gourmet chefs are your friend... ;-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                                 gramp bought gran a $350 cook set 20 years ago - (boxley) - (3)
                                     Well, here's the thing: - (admin) - (2)
                                         :-( scragging thru other peoples junk is a sport (to me) -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                             I'd rather play soccer with the 3yo - (admin)
                         Yes, that's the stuff. - (Andrew Grygus)
                         No, this. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                             Strangely . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
                             Yow! -NT - (admin)
                             But, but, you're ignoring gift Panini Set and free shiping! - (a6l6e6x)
                 agree with andrew on the non stick stuff, as for cleaning - (boxley)
         Just a couple of months ago... - (Yendor) - (7)
             Re: Just a couple of months ago... - (admin) - (6)
                 Re: Just a couple of months ago... - (Yendor) - (5)
                     We have a giant corner cupboard. - (admin) - (4)
                         Got a picture? - (Another Scott) - (3)
                             Re: Got a picture? - (admin) - (2)
                                 Ah. I can picture it; no need to dig one up. -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                     I can't; dig away, First One! -NT - (CRConrad)
         We went for these: - (admin) - (2)
             Those are good ones. - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                 That's good to know. - (admin)

Ugh. Too bony for soup.
267 ms