Up to a point

Post #278,869 by JayMehaffey 3/19/07 10:33:51 PM Reply	Up to a point disagree and heres why If the prez called me to ask what to do in Iraq I might be hesitant to be forthcoming if I knew my words would be public record. Im not currently a political entity but a back channel device. I think that should be withheld. Up to a point I agree. There are times when getting good advice is important enough that it makes sense that it should be off the record. But there needs to be a limit to how much back channel the government can use, because otherwise there will be no official records at all. Governments like the Bush administration would do everything off the record if they could. Jay
Post #278,879 by bepatient 3/19/07 11:06:40 PM Reply	Good thing they can't then, isn't it? Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #278,903 by Seamus 3/20/07 7:34:04 AM Reply	What if they are pushing us down a slippery slope of secrecy Seamus
Post #278,904 by pwhysall 3/20/07 8:16:08 AM Reply	"What if"? Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall\|A better terminal emulator] [image\|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png\|0\|Darwinia\|\|]
Post #278,905 by Seamus 3/20/07 8:21:15 AM 3/20/07 9:03:36 AM Reply	secrecy in governmantal decisions can lead to bad laws and in this case a policy that caters to energy producers and away from a serious look at the alternatives. Seamus Edited by Seamus March 20, 2007, 09:03:36 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #278,910 by bepatient 3/20/07 8:46:25 AM Reply	Both the laws and the policy are public if it was a big gov't secret we wouldn't be talking about it...now would we? Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #278,917 by Seamus 3/20/07 9:16:00 AM Reply	Let me real clear for you The reason they don't want to tell us who they consulted with in determining their energy policy seems to be related to their belief that the president is first among equals. They have shown themselves more than willing to tell the public whatever they think we want to hear. Without seeing what formal advice they are getting, we have no way of knowing whether they are serving our interests or serving someone else's interest. This administration does not have a good record of serving the public interest if it conflicts with the interest of their donors. Seamus
Post #278,918 by bepatient 3/20/07 9:33:08 AM Reply	I don't see an issue here. I see you saying the administration acted exactly as it is supposed to to formulate policies (confer with their choice of experts) I then see you saying that the people are too lazy or too stupid to review the policies of the government. And SINCE that is the case, then what you want is the ability to witch hunt private citizens and field experts because because you have a personal beef with those setting policy. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #278,927 by Another Scott 3/20/07 10:45:11 AM Reply	My thoughts. Of course, there are cases when a president needs to be able to call someone and say, "Look Nancy, I need your honest advice here. What do you think I should do about XYZ?" I don't think anyone has a problem with a president getting honest advice like that. I think the refusal of Bush to disclose more about the workings of the [link\|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/15/AR2005111501842.html\|Energy Task Force] is bad because it's not just private advice by one or a very few people, it's a group specially convened to create a policy. Just as people got upset with Hillary's [link\|http://www.nlpc.org/ew/01-1hctf.htm\|health care meetings] because many thought there was too little transparency, people are upset with these secret policy meetings. I don't know where the line should be drawn, but as a general policy it's hard to go wrong with "Sunshine is the best disinfectant". Why is one of the reforms being pushed in earmarks the requirement to list who is pushing the legislation? Because transparency is best. The same thing goes for the Executive Branch. Cheers, Scott.
Post #279,504 by Seamus 3/25/07 2:11:07 PM 3/25/07 2:12:06 PM Reply	I am sure you don't I didn't comment on whether the administration acted as it should have, I believe the only asked for input on policy from those who agree with them. A polar opposite of a president such as Lincoln. I think a presidential administration has the duty to seek out as much input as possible when it come a important national priority such as energy. They did not. I also didn't comment on the intelligence of the american public. When it comes to politics, it seems to be disinterested in looking at the why behind the actions of politicians. Why they are disinterested I didn't offer an opinion. My comment was about how it seems to me that this administration only says what they think their base wants to hear. I believe we the people deserve a government where what that government does and how it decides what it does needs to be done is open to inspection and debate. A don't believe in witch hunts. Please leave your issues out of my comments. Seamus Edited by Seamus March 25, 2007, 02:12:06 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #278,949 by CRConrad 3/20/07 4:02:31 PM Reply	You misunderstand. Peter hardly needs the clarification; his ""what if?"" ~~most probably~~ meant, "Whaddayamean, 'What if?' -- they obviously ARE". In the future, try to remember: He's British. HTH! [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]
Post #278,957 by jb4 3/20/07 5:11:39 PM Reply	ICLRPD (new thread) Created as new thread #278956 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=278956\|ICLRPD] jb4 "It's hard for me, you know, living in this beautiful White House, to give you a firsthand assessment." — George W. Bush, when asked if he believed Iraq was in a state of civil war (Newsweek, 26 Feb 07)
Post #279,505 by Seamus 3/25/07 2:15:46 PM Reply	I hope I did misunderstand him Seamus
Post #278,909 by bepatient 3/20/07 8:45:01 AM Reply	Gee, thanks ;-) Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}

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