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New Rant/vent - aka what happened over Thanksgiving weekend...
Where to begin...

Story 1.

Thanksgiving dinner. We were invited to my mother's for dinner. My brother, wife and son, were coming in from Montana for a visit. Everyone in the house is invited, wife, both daughters, daughter #2's bf, and my two daughters. MIL and BIL were not invited this year as my mother said that she didn't have enough room. My wife is mad. Then daughter #3 asks if she can go to her friends house for dinner. My wife says "no". She had to come with us. Fight. Daughter storms out. I say nothing. Thanksgiving morning, I started cleaning house (I had offered a compromise with my wife, that we could have daughter #1, bf and baby, MIL, and BIL over for dessert on Thanksgiving day evening.), and baked the pies. Daughter #3 is sulking around the house. At 11:00 I saw her drive off with her friend (girl). She didn't come back in time for dinner. Wife is pissed.

Time to leave. I knocked on the bedroom door of daughter #2 and bf. He answers. I say that we are leaving for my mom's house. His reply, "Ok." Wife and I take off. At two they still haven't arrived. I went to the car to call them. "Why didn't you wait for us?" bf "I don't know the way." I said that daughter #2 does. "No she doesn't". I start to give directions. "It's too late now, we decided to go to OCB." Wife is more pissed.

Dinner was great, visiting was fun. But the saga continues...

Story 2.

My wife had a very bad first marriage. We even had to get Order for Protection for her. As time passed, he quieted down.

Then her ex retired in September. With his retirement he became eligible for social security, and SS started sending my wife child support payments for the youngest child. Ex started to tell daughter that the ss pmt was for her, to do with as she pleased. (Not according to all the documentation we got from ss.)

Uneasy truce. Wife would give daughter $20.00/week for pocket money. And additional when asked/justified.

On Friday I got the cell phone bill. Said daughter exceeded her minutes by 500 and text messages by 500. (can anyone explain how a teenager can use 1200 minutes and 3000 text messages in one month, when nights and weekends are free, and In calls and text messages are free? And still go to school?) I called her and told her that her cell phone was suspended until she got herself a job and could pay her own cell phone bill. (This was third $150+ overage). She spouted off that her dad had said that the ss money was hers and she didn't need to get a job....

I suspended the phone. Verizon cs told me to claim lost or stolen and that would put a 30 day block on the number, which was exactly the amount of time I had planned on keeping it away from her.

Sunday afternoon, while wife and I were watching football game, she poked her head in the bedroom and said "I'm leaving. I'm gonna go live with my dad. I have all my stuff packed. Bye." She has made that threat before. This time she did pack up and go to her dad's place. (fwiw, she will be 18 in December).

Story 3.

Daughter 2 meets boy while at AIT in Ft Lee (National Guards). He follows her home. Moves into the basement with her. Fights constantly. Move out with older sister and sister's bf. Mortal fights happen. #2 moves back home with her bf. Three months later daughter is pregnant. He has lost his job, and gotten a new job stocking shelves overnight. He has borrowed close to $800 from me for truck tires, truck insurance, and whatever. Has managed to pay back $200 in the six months they have been living back at home.

3 weeks ago another fight between the two of them. He wants to go back to SC. She is threatening to call the cops on him if he comes in their bedroom. Two days later things have subsided.

On the 16th he asked if he could borrow some money from my wife so he can pay for school. Supposedly he is eligible for tuition reimbursement from NG for any college, but he has to pay the school first. Upon graduation, he submits for reimbursement. Need $1500 on the 20th, when class starts. Says he has tried student loans but turned down. Need $4800 for total class, to be come truck driver (CDL). Wife says she'll have to talk to me. I walk in after work and he starts telling me how he and my wife had worked out loan and wanted my ok. I said I guess it would be ok (my wife's mutual funds from before we were married) and that wife and i would talk about it.

We discussed. I decided we needed to talk to #2 daughter to see what kind of relationship they had and if she felt comfortable that he was going to stay. Only daughter had her weekend with the Guard. I told her bf that we would talk to him when he got home from Guard on Sunday. (Both had Guard on the same weekend, but are not in the same unit.) He kept calling all weekend and we just ignored his calls. Daughter came home on Sunday and immediately launched into us about ignoring bf's calls. Explained why and she blew up. Then he called, so we answered it and he started yelling about why we made his gf cry.

When he got home i sat him down and told him that we would, against our better judgement, loan him the $1500 for downpayment, and that he would need to find a way to finance the remainder. He was pissed, he said we had "promised" him the full amount. Finally settled down and accepted the money.

Friday, the 24th, I wrote up a simple loan agreement. Said we would charge him the interest rate that wife MF was drawing for the period of the loan, and I would adjust the rate on a monthly basis. Also stated that any late payment would incur a late fee. He took it to daughter #2, and then the two of them came up and started yelling at us about how we never stated anything about a late fee, or interest. And how was he going to pay the school, that he needed $3100 by Tuesday (tomorrow) or he would have to drop out. yada yada yada. So, I said, btw, starting Jan 1, you both will need to pay rent.

Daughter #2 screams and hollers and calls grandma about how we were kicking them out of the house. Call her mom a bitch and said "I'm never going to have anything to do with you ever again.". They stormed back downstairs. I went downstairs after them and said that there was no need for her to talk to her mother that way.

Eventually noise level subsided.

Current (as of last night) - wife is convinced that she is a horrible mother. My daughters hate her. Her daughters hate her. No amount of reassurance helps. (Of course it is all my fault because I let my daughters treat her like dirt.) Sigh.

Me? I think I'm gonna put the house up for sale, get a small 2 br house with a big yard for wife's dogs. My daughters have both gone off to college. Wife's oldest one has her own place (with bf and baby), youngest has moved in with her dad, and #2 is sick and tired of living in my "piss hole of a house".

And how was your weekend?
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
New Those kids need a serious dose of reality.
New :-( Wow! Mine was pretty quiet. :-) Hang in there.
New Mine was easy
Went nowhere, invited a single person, had more sushi than turkey.
Was good.
New This is why...
... I prefer my luck with cars to your luck with family. :-P

Good luck, and hang in there.

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Lemme guess
both females between ages of 16-21?

It will get better. You will want to tear your head off a few times between now and then. You will want to tear THEIR heads off between now and then.


It will get better. They turn human again. Really, they do.

Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New Holy Frack.
And I thought my close encounter with my uncle's politics, and my mom's inability to leave any personal scab unpicked, were pretty nasty. :(
Odoru aho ni miru aho!
Onaji aho nara odoranya son son!
New And people wonder why, every now and then
husbands/fathers simply walk away and don't look back.

[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]

[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]

New I was tempted.
Couldn't do it.

And sometimes it doesn't change once they're past 21. Sometimes the 35yro ones are just as bad.

Makes me sorta glad that we had a *son* and not a *daughter*.

"Don't give up!"
New Second your plans -
Without your own contentment, (and that of the one party whom you Chose to abide) none of the sacrifices escape that sour taste, right?

Ahh... The joys of a small house!
unencumbered by chattels to fill up, heat, insure.. said domicile with all the modrin cool $tuff - such pleasures are quite more than the obvious freedom from being owned by all those purchases -

the space factor sets a clear limit on the imaginations of those with eyes on that 'spare' bedroom / den / attic / basement or loft.

(Then too, as and when the aging children slouch off towards some sort of adulthood, eventually make their apologies for bratlike behavior.. in time, they may even become, actually welcomed? For visits. If You want.)

Meanwhile, hope you can take that chance, savor the delicious planning too -- to grab back your peace. :-)

..once, freed of the albatross of a 3-story mansion with chic views of three bridges.
Resolved thence: quoth the Raven, nevermore.

oblig YMMV ;-)
New oh joy... thas why when the youngest is eighteen I am buying
a single wide in a 55 plus community, they can only stay 3 consecutive days.
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New Most holidays in my house ended up like yours
I grew up with 3 sisters, no brothers. After we all went through puberty holidays were hell. I know your pain. Condolences!
New Wow, may have even been less fun then mine
My dad came home from the hospital Tuesday, after major surgery. We found him downstairs Thursday afternoon staring at the ceiling and unable to speak or react coherently.

It turned out to be just his blood sugar crashing, and he recovered as soon as the EMTs pumped some sugar water into him. But it was very scary for a while.

New get a glucogun
(spelling?) Available by prescription, it allows you to administer a concentrated dose of sugar water to a person in need. Even though they must be replaced after being used , they're way cheaper than paying for a visit by the paramedics.

"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow

Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem.

I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States.

[link|mailto:golf_lover44@yahoo.com|contact me]
New Re: Rant/vent - aka what happened over Thanksgiving weekend
For "Thanksgiving", perhaps you need to ask them to count their blessings. Parents who care, who work with you, who love and help their kids and tolerate their BFs. Also, you need to work on "behavioral" things, like you're more likely to say "yes" if they ask nicely.

And the BF thing. He's twisting your words. I guess it's too late to start cleaning your shotgun? When your daughter twists your words, is that her talking or the BF putting her up to it? Sounds like you DO need to be cleaning firearms soon. Is the BF serious about school, or is it another excuse not to work?

I didn't have a child to support, but I did pay about 1/2 my college education working. My wife did the same. I had friends who paid 100% of their college education, they took 7-8 years to finish school, but they graduated. One is now a partner in a CPA firm. The other one is a millionaire.

The "young women" need to learn to take care of themselves. Some language like my parents used. "Well, you're a young adult now, and you clearly have some adult problems. You need to think about your life and what you want out of it. Not just the current BF/GF, but what you want for you and your kids. I can't give it you, we're not the Waltons. I can be your coach and mentor, but it's your life and you're responsible for the consequences of your actions. You have to make the money to support the lifestyle you want to have." I already use that one on my 11 year old on why he needs to be serious about school.

Your problem is you keep rescuing them.

My wife has 53 year old sister that we personally have rescued twice, her mother has rescued her twice or three times, and her dad, well, too many too count. My wife's step-mother-in-law is in her early 60's and has never lived alone. My father-in-law took care of everything until he had a stroke about 2 months ago, now she's a mess because she's never paid the light bill in her life. We had to teach her how to "write a check and balance a checkbook".

My kids are 11 years (boy), 10 (girl), and 6 (boy). We are starting now, and your tales encourage me even more that they will never treat us like this.

Good Luck and my Prayers will be with you. YOU NEED 'EM!!!!!

New Ive been snarling "get a job" at my kids since age 5
doesnt work, you are the magic ATM machine until you break.
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New Yeahbut...
Unfortunately, from family experience, some people just can't or won't learn. When/If they start to get their heads above water, something happens to cause everything to fall apart again. Often, it's interactions with other people (a bad boyfriend; believing a story that a better job is available in another city; etc.). Sometimes, it's just bad luck (an inopportune injury or illness; a car that breaks down too often; etc.). Sometimes it's laziness or fear of making hard choices. And some people just never have enough income to live the life they think they need to live and there's no convincing them otherwise.

Most people will eventually get the hint that they need to take responsibility for their lives and get their acts together. But some won't. My mother was often in the "can't get their act together" group. The problem is - what can or should you do about such people? And how do you tell the difference between the groups? I don't know.

Starting young and impressing on kids that life is a series of choices that will impact everything they do or want to do is important. But it doesn't always work, in spite of your best efforts. That's when things really get hard, as you've found (and I've experienced). :-(

Sometimes people need to be rescued. Sometimes they need to claw their own way up the cliff. It's very hard to know the difference.

Best of luck, everyone.

New And step children make the problem worse
New Well that was an incredibly cheerful bunch of stories.
Encouraging as all Hell, too (perhaps especially Tony's bit about stepchildren).

You have my deepest sympathies, Joe; sorry that I can't be of any better help.

   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
New Update
Just got a call from her school. "Are you aware that she has 20+ excused absences? Doctor appointments, dental appointments, personal reasons." "No". "Didn't think so. They all happen to match a friend's (girl) absences. Normally we don't worry about seniors, but since I knew you were concerned, I thought I would call you."

Cutting classes. Hmmmm. Told school that she had moved in with her dad and gave them his number. School called him. She forged his signature today! Then dad called my wife. Told her the stories the daughter had told him. "We kicked her out of the house." He also asked about the "community service" she had to do. She told him it was part of a school project. He didn't buy it. Wife told him, and the he had to sit with her through the program tonight.

He was going to pick her up after school today. She doesn't know she's been busted. I wish I could be the fly on the wall to here their "talk".


Oh, and wife and I have started to actively look at downsizing. Good time to buy, poor time to try and sell a large house. We'll see how things turn out.

Lastly, thanks all for the comments. Tony is right, Step does create a whole different set of problems. "You're not my real dad, ....". I'm actually looking forward to moving.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
New I'd move into a boat
Travel around. Small, liberating, waterfront. Maybe a nice little trawler like a [link|http://www.marinesource.com/buyerslistings/xtrapics1.cfm?ListingNmb=6171758|Grand Banks].

Can't go wrong.

[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]

[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]

New twas my dream also but wife gets seasick walking in the rain
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New Just so I'm clear ....
I'm a little late on the stories. All girls? And how many are yours and hers?
Are there any that are both of yours?

And how long before they're all 18?

Downsizing to a house (or apartment) where you don't have room to accomodate them and the BFs may be the best option. It appears you're outnumbered and outgunned.

But, if the real father will assist in being a parent, and if the grandparents cooperate, then maybe you've got a shot if they all send the same message.

However, I just saw an "Intervention" TV ad where a drunk mom lost custody of her kids and still drinks multiple (personal) bottles of Vodka a day. Straight!

Glen Austin
New Answers
5 Daughters. 3 Step, 2 Bio, 0 joint. Ages: 22, 20, 20, 18, 1711/12 (HS senior)

My 2 are in college (Milwaukee and Duluth)

Step 22 has baby (2 mo) and lives with bf 6 miles away.
Step 20 is pg, in NG, lives with us. Her bf resides with her in basement.
Step 17 is HS senior, currently living with her dad (since Sunday). Has decided he is too strict and wants to move in with a neighbor.

As for "new" house, wife found one she really likes in Wisconsin. 60 mile commute (all freeway). 20 acre hobby farm. Worth looking at.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
New Sounds like you need to go hunting, football
Or some other "guy stuff"... Wow 6 women. I couldn't handle it. Two are enough in my house.

Now, you just need to get them "outta the house" and on their own.

I would strongly suggest you start using the language I posted previously.

"You're adults now. You are responsible for your own life. You need to be able to solve your own problems. I won't be around forever, and even if I am around a while longer, 5 girls all college age means we don't have a lot of extra money."

Again, you will be in my prayers with 5 between 22 and 17, you need some prayers. Also, do they "work together" to solve problems (help each other out) or do they compete for your attention?

This is a big thing we're trying to teach our 3 (11, 10, 6) is that they cannot compete for parent's love and resources. And they need to help each other out.

Glen Austin
New Help? Each Other?
What a concept.

Sorry, but my wife is the biggest divider. She actually pits the kids against each other. (Very long story. Short version-she needs counseling for things that happened in the past, but does not acknowledge that she does.)

I'm going to encourage the acquistion of a new house, be it the hobby farm or something else. Large enough for TEMPORARY visitors, and far enough away that the kids would not want to move in and commute (40-60 miles/1 hr drive - here in MN that's a significant drive. Avg is 20 min.)
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
New And thanks for the prayers, well wishes, and good thoughts.
They are appreciated.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
New As for the Hobby Farm...
Main house is yours and wife's. Kids get the "out buildings" or can get their bf's to build them their own house. Not a lot of bfs will sign up for that.

I like that plan.

Glen Austin
New Sorry you had such a rough time
All I can offer are prayers and wishes that things get better also. Your family situation sounds even worse than some of mine, and that's hard to accomplish.

We were granted a miracle for Thanksgiving though, which was very unexpected. We thought Katie's brother Fred, (the late Aunt Jeffie's son), was going to die several days before Thanksgiving.

He was having more seizures, was unable to keep anything down, and was dehydrating fast. They admitted him to the hospital I believe, Mon night before the holiday. His son called me, in tears, afraid he would lose his dad. He was unable to get up here from Houston, MO. We all prayed, we called people, we reassured people, and we waited.

It was determined that Fred had had a mild stroke the Friday after the funeral, which was what was causing the small seizures. It was also determined that he had a virus, which was causing the sickness, not the chemo that he had started the week before after the cancer came back. From death's door that night, to sitting up and talking Weds, and home for Thanksgiving at my parent's home on Thursday. An absolute miracle.

I had an okay Thanksgiving myself, had a couple spars with SIL, and wasn't terribly comfortable, but I was okay I guess. However, I was getting sick and didn't know it, and fell ill with bronchitis shortly before Thanksgiving. Started an Antibiotic, but had to feel worse before I felt better, and slept most of Black Friday, half of Saturday, and part of Sunday.

I think the bronchitis is gone, but I feel like I'm in a fog or something, like life is blurring past me and won't slow down. And the scariest part is I feel like I'm dealing with that all alone, which is silly, I have John and family, and friends, but I still feel coldly and solidly alone tonight with no explanation.

Anyway.. I'm still here, just in a hazy daze.


"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss

"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06
New Went to go visit my Dad...
...who had suffered a second stroke a month earlier, and is now in a rehab center to get strength back in failed side of body. Between that and the Alsheimers, he's not doing too well. But was good to see rest of family, tho.

Thanks for asking...
"When the final history is written in Iraq, [link|http://images.ucomics.com/comics/tmate/2006/tmate060926.gif|it'll look just like a comma.]"
George W. Bush, 24 Sep 06
Expand Edited by jb4 Dec. 1, 2006, 12:14:49 PM EST
New Condolences.
Hope for the best with your dad.

I really enjoy when I get the chance to visit my brothers and sister. We're scattered, so it takes a "special" occassion to get us together. Sadly most of those "special" occassions are ones that we don't like.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
     Rant/vent - aka what happened over Thanksgiving weekend... - (jbrabeck) - (30)
         Those kids need a serious dose of reality. -NT - (Steve Lowe)
         :-( Wow! Mine was pretty quiet. :-) Hang in there. -NT - (Another Scott)
         Mine was easy - (crazy)
         This is why... - (admin)
         Lemme guess - (bepatient)
         Holy Frack. - (inthane-chan)
         And people wonder why, every now and then - (tuberculosis) - (1)
             I was tempted. - (static)
         Second your plans - - (Ashton)
         oh joy... thas why when the youngest is eighteen I am buying - (boxley)
         Most holidays in my house ended up like yours - (bionerd)
         Wow, may have even been less fun then mine - (JayMehaffey) - (1)
             get a glucogun - (lincoln)
         Re: Rant/vent - aka what happened over Thanksgiving weekend - (gdaustin) - (3)
             Ive been snarling "get a job" at my kids since age 5 - (boxley)
             Yeahbut... - (Another Scott) - (1)
                 And step children make the problem worse -NT - (tonytib)
         Well that was an incredibly cheerful bunch of stories. - (CRConrad)
         Update - (jbrabeck) - (8)
             I'd move into a boat - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                 twas my dream also but wife gets seasick walking in the rain -NT - (boxley)
             Just so I'm clear .... - (gdaustin) - (5)
                 Answers - (jbrabeck) - (4)
                     Sounds like you need to go hunting, football - (gdaustin) - (2)
                         Help? Each Other? - (jbrabeck)
                         And thanks for the prayers, well wishes, and good thoughts. - (jbrabeck)
                     As for the Hobby Farm... - (gdaustin)
         Sorry you had such a rough time - (Nightowl)
         Went to go visit my Dad... - (jb4) - (1)
             Condolences. - (jbrabeck)

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