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New Primitive black magic?
Cool! That means that the welfare queens can have all the cadilacs they want without having any impact on the rest of us!

Seriously, that's some goofy rhetoric. Life isn't entirely a zero sum game, but the more X I consume, the less X there is for you, for most values of X. Obviously, health isn't one of those values of X. And neither is overall prosperity, within certain parameters and measured correctly. If wealth is not distributed efficiently (is there any doubt that Microsoft's monopolistic practices damage the software industry?) or measured clumsily (market share is always zero sum)then there are problems, but there is a reason why health is used as a metaphor for economic conditions.

Economics is partly zero sum and partly not. The size of the pie is not constant, but to refer to looking at the zero sum parts as "primitive black magic" does not lead to deeper understanding of the truth. Overconsumption does lead to shortages, and to inefficiencies.

But overconsumption of resources is not why these particular people hate us anyway. They don't hate us out of envy, they hate us out of pride. They know The Way It Ought To Be and that doesn't include scum like us. They'd hate us if we were penniless gypsies, if we still defended Israel effectively and had a presence in Saudi Arabia and a culture more attractive to their fellows than theirs is.

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"You don't have to be right - just use bolded upper case" - annon.
New Envy is a symptom of pride.
It boils down to: "How dare they be more successful than us?"
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
New For you, maybe.
But you still haven't accounted for the fear of the "Welfare Queens" and their high priced cars.

Envy?
New Who fears welfare queens?
Do you honestly know anyone who pees his pants when a welfare queen rolls by in her limo?

I don't know how it is on planet Brandioch, but here on earth we don't fear parasites. We despise them, and do our best to make them fear *us*.

[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
New Perhaps you don't listen.
"Do you honestly know anyone who pees his pants when a welfare queen rolls by in her limo?"

Take a look at a google search on "welfare queen" and you'll see a whole lot of people afraid.

"I don't know how it is on planet Brandioch, but here on earth we don't fear parasites."

Hmmm, you're making this too easy.

So, if they have less than you, they're envious.

Or they're parasites.

"We despise them, and do our best to make them fear *us*."

I see that fear plays a very important role in your world view.
New A bit of theological theory
There is an idea that pretty much every form of badness stems from pride.

I haven't seen any real specific counter-examples to that, but my own inclination is to see that most sin derives from self-loathing. I think a case could be made that the thing these guys are really trying to kill is an aspect of themselves. We threaten their order mostly by temptation. If they weren't tempted, we wouldn't be much of a threat.

That perspective doesn't contradict the idea of pride being the root - self-loathing is driven (at least partly) by an exaggerated idea of what that self should be. Pride, in other words.

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"You don't have to be right - just use bolded upper case" - annon.
Expand Edited by mhuber Jan. 31, 2002, 03:18:36 PM EST
New Ben Franklin's take
(~~) I think that in time I might overcome all of the sins - except vanity - for even were I to become truly humble, I'd probably feel vain about it.

Can't 'Win' :-\ufffd






I'm the humblest person I know: I'm Numbah One!
     Why they hate us: the envy theory - (marlowe) - (43)
         Interesting. - (Brandioch) - (2)
             Why ask why? - (marlowe) - (1)
                 Voodoo economics - (nking)
         Laughing my tail off.... - (Simon_Jester) - (3)
             Bin Laden is winning? - (marlowe) - (2)
                 Marlowe... - (Simon_Jester)
                 Depends on your definition of winning - (nking)
         Wow! a veritable glossary of cant - (Ashton) - (24)
             Minor nitpick...... - (Mike)
             Ash, you're amazing. - (Arkadiy) - (3)
                 Ash has always been a very selective skeptic... - (marlowe)
                 I heard it differently. - (Brandioch)
                 Curses! Foiled Again. Milliards n'Milliards of Stars.. - (Ashton)
             Pardon me, your envy is showing. - (marlowe) - (16)
                 Wrong measures - (gtall) - (15)
                     'Consumption' - a pretty spot-on measure after all. - (Ashton) - (14)
                         Depends on how you calculate waste - (gtall) - (6)
                             Startling statistic - (wharris2)
                             Predator inefficiency - (mhuber) - (1)
                                 Re: Predator inefficiency - (gtall)
                             It's all soluble without magic. - (Ashton)
                             Nit: Most cow methane is due to burping. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                 Gotta Love.. the implications and our next plan - - (Ashton)
                         Malthus has been patient with us? - (marlowe) - (6)
                             Gosh marlowe, sometimes your rhetorical questions are just - (Ashton) - (5)
                                 Begging the question. Whence the power? - (marlowe) - (4)
                                     The more rapacious 'won', of course - (Ashton) - (3)
                                         Big problem with that theory. Conflicts with real world. - (marlowe) - (2)
                                             Any use of the word 'real' to bolster a stereotype - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                 Methinks you're suffering from reality envy. -NT - (marlowe)
             A veritable balance of cant. - (marlowe) - (1)
                 Thus speaks one who has never served. - (Brandioch)
         Isn't this your third or fourth "why they hate us"link? - (Silverlock) - (2)
             Yeah, I'm going for a record. - (marlowe) - (1)
                 No hate needed. I just calls 'em as I sees 'em -NT - (Silverlock)
         Envy theory, good answer. - (nking)
         Primitive black magic? - (mhuber) - (6)
             Envy is a symptom of pride. - (marlowe) - (5)
                 For you, maybe. - (Brandioch) - (2)
                     Who fears welfare queens? - (marlowe) - (1)
                         Perhaps you don't listen. - (Brandioch)
                 A bit of theological theory - (mhuber) - (1)
                     Ben Franklin's take - (Ashton)

Back off, man! I'm a scientist!
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