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New I don't like that idea.
Representatives are supposed to be close to the people. That's why they're elected every 2 years. That closeness is also the result of having rather small districts (compared to Senators). Turning the House into a collection of people who represent their entire state would fundamentally change the connection between the people and their representative. The House shouldn't be a 2 year Senate - it has a different role. Each person gets to vote for 1 person to represent them in the House. If we're going to change that, we need to think long and hard about it and understand the ramifications. E.g. greater representation by smaller parties is good, up to a point. We don't want to be at the mercy of fringe parties the way many parliamentary democracies are.

North Dakota has an "at large" representative in the House because each state must have at least 1 representative. So s/he represents the whole state, and each voter gets to choose 1 person. There's no problem there.

But if Utah has 3 representatives tied to districts, and 1 who is "at large", then Utah voters will effectively have 2 representatives in the House. That's fundamentally unfair as no other House voter in another state would have that.

A much fairer way to expand the House than Davis's plan is to say the new number is 437, DC gets 1 seat, and the other 436 are divided up after the 2010 census based on population (using the existing rules but making the divisor 436 rather than 435, and accounting for ND and any other state that must have 1 representative). That's also when DC gets its seat. Then there would be no new issues about redistricting Utah and at-large-ness, etc. (The decennial redistricting issues would be there, but it wouldn't be a new problem.)

If there's still a worry the 436th seat going to Utah and the Utah democrat being squeezed out, well, them's the breaks. It sounds like it's a potential problem whether or not DC gets a seat.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
New An at large must pander to the strident majority
not a good thing, thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New ? That's not the way it works in DC.
The DC [link|http://www.dccouncil.washington.dc.us/members.html|City Council] has 8 "wards" (districts) and in addition 4 "at large" seats and a separate Chair that is also elected "at large". AFAIK, the only Republicans and Independents on the Council have "at large" seats.

I understand it works like this: Substantial (political) minorities that are geographically dispersed have a chance for an at-large seat when they would have no chance in a compact district. As such, if a state only had at-large seats, then minority views still might be squeezed out.

In other words, they need to pander to a dispersed, strident minority. :-)

The [link|http://www.abfa.com/ogc/tit4.htm#401|DC Charter] has this to say about the Council's organization:

SEC. 401. [D.C. Code 1-221] (a) There is established a Council of the District of Columbia; and the members of the Council shall be elected by the registered qualified electors of the District.

(b) (1) The Council established under subsection (a) [of this section] shall consist of thirteen members elected on a partisan basis. The Chairman and four members shall be elected at large in the District, and eight members shall be elected one each from the eight election wards established[,] from time to time, under the District of Columbia Election Act [An Act To regulate the election of delegates representing the District of Columbia to national political conventions, and for other purposes, approved August 12, 1955 (69 Stat. 699; D.C. Code 1-1301 et seq.)]. The term of office of the members of the Council shall be four years, except as provided in paragraph (3) [of this subsection], and shall begin at noon on January 2 of the year following their election.

(2) In the case of the first election held for the office of member of the Council after the effective date of this title [January 2, 1975], not more than two of the at-large members (excluding the Chairman) shall be nominated by the same political party. Thereafter, a political party may nominate a number of candidates for the office of at-large member of the Council equal to one less than the total number of at-large members (excluding the Chairman) to be elected in such election.


Emphasis added.

Being a creature of the US Congress, the DC government is a special case. Most people wouldn't tolerate such restrictions on who they can vote for to represent them. But it has the advantage of prohibiting total control of the Council by one political party.

FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
New I don't like it, either
For much the same reasons Another Scott stated. However, the prospoect of Utah getting "DeLayed" is also problematic. I do agree that this is a different problem from DC getting representation in the House (I believe that DC should also get a full set of Senators). How to keep gerrymandering? Well, on solution I've heard is to allow a comupter to draw approximately rectangular districts based on census figures. The computer draws three such district maps, and the state House selects one of the three. Period. Lather, rinse, repeat every ten years.
jb4
"So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't."
Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
New who programs the computer?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New adminiScott!
Just as long as it is not Diebold, and the source code is available for public (that's me, folks!) inspection, I don't much care.
jb4
"So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't."
Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
New The algorithm would have to be public
The algorith used would have be public. And once that is done, it really doesn't matter who provides the program to the government, as the result will be tested by outside groups.

The real trick is writing up an algorithm that is fair, deterministic and effective. Fair in the sense that it doesn't bias the layout towards any party, that would be fairly easy. Deterministic in that given the same input map and population data it will always produce the same layout, making independent verification possible. Effective in that the district map would be understandable and simple.

Jay
     Weird proposal to allow DC a vote in the House. - (Another Scott) - (26)
         Obviously setup to keep the balance. - (JayMehaffey) - (24)
             Permanently at large congress members could be good - (ben_tilly) - (23)
                 I don't like that idea. - (Another Scott) - (6)
                     An at large must pander to the strident majority - (boxley) - (1)
                         ? That's not the way it works in DC. - (Another Scott)
                     I don't like it, either - (jb4) - (3)
                         who programs the computer? -NT - (boxley) - (2)
                             adminiScott! - (jb4)
                             The algorithm would have to be public - (JayMehaffey)
                 Making them all at large might be OK - (JayMehaffey) - (15)
                     Don't tell me...you're an Engineer, right? -NT - (jb4)
                     Alaska is a perfect example of why that doesnt work - (boxley) - (13)
                         See Another Scott's comments about DC - (ben_tilly) - (10)
                             must be missing something - (boxley) - (9)
                                 Yes, you must :-) - (ben_tilly) - (8)
                                     And then you can have NC's 12th Congressional district. - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                         True dat, but... - (ben_tilly)
                                     doesnt work that way - (boxley) - (5)
                                         How many "at large" votes does each person have? - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                                             if you have 2 at large seats ya have one vote for both seats - (boxley) - (2)
                                                 One vote per seat works IF - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                     You OBVIOUSLY don't live in Chicago.... -NT - (jb4)
                                         Problem is *not enough* at -large seats - (drewk)
                         Which is why I don't both house to be that way - (JayMehaffey) - (1)
                             Right now neither house has proportional distribution -NT - (ben_tilly)
         Looks less likely it'll happen this year. - (Another Scott)

There’s nothing we like more than appearing to be open minded.
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