It's time for reciprocation?

Post #25,095 by screamer 1/22/02 9:51:54 AM Reply	It's time for reciprocation? IMHO, it is very hard to take difficult stands... I think it is time that we acknowledge that this "war on terrorism" is not our war alone. Soon we will have to decide if Israel's war against Palestinian "terrorists" is "just". We'll save that for another thread. The volcano in the Congo and the reaction of the Ruwandan government to "refugees" must be watched carefully as well. Again, another thread... Today's papers and most to follow will be talking about India's upcoming war with Pakistan... It will soon be time for us to "choose sides". Pakistan has "become" our ally (perhaps by duress?), but is this new friendship strong enough to break the bonds between India and the US? I think the Kashmir region will become perhaps the most important determination of our will as a civilized world. I am providing a link (rather biased, but fairly accurate...) explaining one world view of the Kasmir situation. [link\|http://www.kashmir-information.com/PastPresent/chapter19.html\|http://www.kashmir-...apter19.html] I believe that it is fair to say that Muslim fundamentalism and it's medieval notions about society continue to come into conflict with the modern world. It was quite apparent in Afghanistan. Now we have a textbook case (IMHO) of a place that has been historically known (legendary) for utopian ideas about harmony and brotherhood. Kashmir. I encourage everyone to read the history of this region. When India finally asks us to "choose", what should our answer be? We can pretty much take religious "bigotry" out of this equation as well, in that neither nation has a significant Christian population... Before answering, you may wish to also consider the history of India and Pakistan. Can either side claim this will be a "just" war? Just a few thoughts, Screamer "I'll tip my hat to the new constitution, take a bow for the new revolution, smile and grin at the change all around, pick up my guitar and play, just like yesterday..." P. Townshend "Nietzsche has an S in it" Celina Jones
Post #25,151 by Ashton 1/22/02 3:30:33 PM Reply	A fine collection of mares nests indeed. And each one requires a bit of arcane historical savvy before any 'opinion' is worth a share of Enron stock or a USSC confirmation. Scary thought: Murican style is.. that the platforms of The One Party with Two Right Wings - are bafflegab, consisting of jingoistic slogans which devolve into blab.. Point: we do not, as a 'country' - have legitimate debate within the citizenry - about some idea of (say) National Purpose\ufffd. We leave all the messy details to the bombastic orators and aforementioned meaningless drivel.. and then just briefly.. during campaigns. We 'trust' the Selected Resident to "Do the Right Thing" without much idea of what that might be (even in certain general categories). We really Don't.. want to be bothered thinking on such levels IMhO. Consequently, it is impossible to er 'modify' that which exists only in the unfathomable mindsets of the players in this 'Republic' - via some plebiscite? national actual debate over the media? or [other]. Neither process is available today - would have to be invented next. The problems you mention might have much more transparent 'first response' from such an informed Republic (US) - if the above were not ~ so. Stand by for a massive ration of contradictory, polarized BS along the ususal idiotic lines we love to draw: "Liberal" VS "Conservative".. despite the apellations being utterly confounded by the fact that 'L' means merely Moderate in today's milieu; 'C' means often - farther Right all the way to Reactionary (or what that word too.. used to mean). So if it comes down to merely strategic choices of the present moment (""friendship"" [Hah] with Pakistan VS our long history with India ???) ... and it is non-debated via Corporate News Clowns and Rush and standard Yahoos, well - Cringe. For genuine discussion even to commence - on such a scale - we'd have to be willing to face our profligacy re oil / energy. Would have to acknowledge that we are waste-aholics and need a 24-step program of reform. Then actually commence that, while noting the number of anti-democratic regimes we have regularly succored [rhymes with suckered]: to pander to the very large US petroleum Interests and their purchased representatives. Note also the intentional killing of any serious research on alternatives to Saudi Sweet (!) Crude.. till just a few hours ago. This would necessarily ALSO open up all Corp. law for review [Enron as a pretty good catalyst] as well as our - Religious faith in all those Wars on ____; what the Drug one is doing to individual liberties, who it is making rich, why we are confiscating w/o due process... yada yada. Sorry to be immediately so pessimistic re any Sane Results. I guess I believe that Ashleigh Brilliant spoke Revealed Truth: In the final analysis, everything depends on everything else I think it is not our style here, ever to follow through on the consequences of each of our multitudinous laws - so often passed to feel-good for 15 minutes == becoming an Albatross for the next n years. (Millennium Patriot Act anyone?) Ashton Prepare to cringe. (I have no idea what Murica is 'spose to Stand For! lately except: We Must 'Win' \ufffdber Alles in Die Welt. This at least.. has a familiar ring)
Post #25,216 by screamer 1/22/02 11:27:46 PM Reply	Was hoping someone would call me out... on this one... Our recent history (cold war strategy...) since the '50's has actually been friendship with Pakistan and a distaste for India's relationship with the former Soviet Union. We have publicly supported Pakistan. It is now, perhaps their time of need... See how messy this gets real fast? In other words, we have supported Pakistan, militarily and financially since the dawn of the cold war, yet we are coming to find out that they have become yet another repressive regime committing atrocities against itself and it's neighbors... Oil was not actually at the heart of this "friendship". It was strategic location in south central Asia during the cold war and Vietnam... Airbases... They sure needed us too when the British left. So, we have two countries, both former British colonies, both with unresolved land disputes from the end of WWII and the British declaring emancipation and drawing the boundaries... Sounds a lot like.... Israel? Just a few thoughts, Screamer "I'll tip my hat to the new constitution, take a bow for the new revolution, smile and grin at the change all around, pick up my guitar and play, just like yesterday..." P. Townshend "Nietzsche has an S in it" Celina Jones

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