Re: Citroen C5. - maybe continuing the mix of the Ami 6

Post #245,835 by Ashton 2/22/06 8:54:01 PM Reply	Re: Citroen C5. - maybe continuing the mix of the Ami 6 - a kind of upscale 2CV, one of which I owned for several months. Utterly gutless of course, but also a soft suspension which was a shocker in so tiny a car. Maybe similar then, to your C5 description; never seen one a C5 live. Unstressed, the Ami was a remarkably comfortable tiny vehicle. Were Muricans sane, also a natural for the expensive fuel decade, as in right Now. But then, Muricans aren't. (As mentioned before - Murican nonmaintenance habits killed off the Citro\ufffdn franchise, apparently forever..) Youse guys get to drive all the fun cars. OT: I think my 5 cyl. is (as claimed) the smoothest running internal combustion engine I've driven; perhaps all the 5s are -Volvo?- which is surprising, given the "rocking couple" theory of symmetry in such contraptions. About time to check those 20 valves.. too quiet is worse than versa. Hmm, also time to check out what's new at Farago's site - the smartass with enough props to do it with style. [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/index.php\|http://www.thetrutha...ars.com/index.php]
Post #245,871 by pwhysall 2/23/06 1:45:30 AM Reply	Some Audi A4 models are 5-pots. Smooooooooove. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #245,876 by CRConrad 2/23/06 5:15:47 AM Reply	No, straight sixes are the smoothest. In theory as well as practice: Theoretically, all reciprocating masses are prefectly balanced out; Practically, in the old "You can stand a coin on its edge on top of the engine!" stunt that mssrs Rolls and Royce used to advertise their Silver Ghost model, that was, IIRC, a straight six they stood the coin on top of. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Yes Mr. Garrison, genetic engineering lets us correct God's horrible, horrible mistakes, like German people. - [link\|http://maxpages.com/southpark2k/Episode_105\|Mr. Hat]
Post #245,881 by Another Scott 2/23/06 7:11:50 AM Reply	I thought V-12s were smoother. That's one of the reasons why the XKE was lusted after. [link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V12\|Wikipedia]: A V12 engine is a V engine with 12 cylinders. Like a straight-6, this configuration has perfect primary and secondary balance no matter which V angle is used and therefore needs no balance shafts. A V12, with two banks of six cylinders angled at 60\ufffd from each other, has even firing with power pulses delivered twice as often per revolution as, and is much smoother than, a straight-6. This allows for great refinement in a luxury car; in a racing car, the rotating parts can be made much lighter and thus more responsive, since there is no need to use counterweights on the crankshaft as is needed in a 90\ufffd V8 and less need for the inertial mass in a flywheel to smooth out the power delivery. In a large, heavy-duty engine, a V12 can run slower than smaller engines, prolonging engine life. With CAD, engineers are able to do magical things with engine designs these days. Witness the [link\|http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/tech_engine_packaging.htm\|VR-6 and W-12]. (But the V-12 is still smoother.) Cheers, Scott.
Post #245,885 by CRConrad 2/23/06 7:25:50 AM Reply	OK... Marginally so. (power pulses delivered twice as often)
Post #245,907 by folkert 2/23/06 10:24:24 AM Reply	I actually thought the... "Straight 8"s and "Straight 12"s were smoother, even the one "Straight 16" that was in production for a short time. Of course, I have never driven one, so I cannot do the first hand knowledge kind of thing. If you don't know what I am talking about, remember the 1920s, 1930s and early 40s had an explosion of automobiles that oozed power (though compared to now... probably not that much). Though the flat head V motors were pretty good, they just didn't hold up compared to the straights. Then the V engines came into thier own. My favorite of the early V engines was the Buick Nail-head. Super high compression ratios, but restrictive exhaust... Oh well compromises. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned.
Post #245,912 by CRConrad 2/23/06 10:52:10 AM Reply	Naah. The eight is rougher, and the twelve is impractical. Greg writes: I actually thought the ... "Straight 8"s and "Straight 12"s were smoother, even the one "Straight 16" that was in production for a short time. Nope. Here, from [link\|http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/smooth3.htm\|AutoZine][]: As shown in the picture, straight-6 engine is simply two 3-cylinder engines mated symmetrically together, thus piston 1 is always in the same position as piston 6, piston 2 the same as piston 5 .... in other words, the engine is balanced end-to-end and requires no balancer shaft, unlike 3-cylinder engines. What about vertical / transverse forces? like 3-cylinder engines, the vertical and transverse forces generated by individual cylinders, no matter first order or second order, are completely balanced by one another. The resultant vibration is nearly zero, thus inline-6 is virtually a perfect configuration. Inline-6 is not the only configuration can deliver near perfect refinement, but it is the most compact one among them. All boxer engines are perfectly balanced, but they are two wide and require duplicate of blocks, heads and valve gears. V12 engines also achieve perfect balance, but obviously out of the reach of most mass production cars. Automotive engineers knew that long ago, that's why you can see most of the best classic engines were inline-6, such as Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost, Bentley Speed Six, Mercedes SSK, many Bugattis, Jaguar XK-series and BMW's various models. V12 engines Theoretically the best balanced configuration for practical use. It is simply a duplication of inline-6 (therefore achieve the same perfect balance), with corresponding cylinders in both banks joined at the same crank pins. V12 is better than inline-6 just because it has more cylinders, thus doubling the firing frequency and smoothen power delivery. So basically, the straight-twelve is just as smooth as a V twelve -- no less, but no more either. The only difference being, it's impractically long. The straight eight, with its number of cylinders being a multiple of four but not three, will (AFAICS) have the same problem as a straight-four -- second-order mass movements not cancelling each other out; thus, vibrations. (Bugatti, Alfa Romeo, Mercedes and the others who built straight eights did so for other reasons than any particular smoothness.) And for all I can see, the same would go for a straight sixteen... Not that I can quite put my finger on what you're talking about there. Did Packard[+] build one of those, or are you mixing it up with the old thirties Cadillac V 16[\ufffd]? (Or even the Cizeta Moroder of the late eighties / early nineties? Naah, didn't think so. :-) []: Thanks, Other Scott, for bringing that site to my attention! [+]: This must obviously have been before he teamed up with Hewlett. [\ufffd]: The one the show prototype a year or two back was a homage to. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Yes Mr. Garrison, genetic engineering lets us correct God's horrible, horrible mistakes, like German people. - [link\|http://maxpages.com/southpark2k/Episode_105\|Mr. Hat]
Post #245,930 by tonytib 2/23/06 11:55:54 AM Reply	Cadillac V-16 Roadster [link\|http://www.auto-salon-singen.de/cadillac_roadster_rot_e.htm\|http://www.auto-salo...oadster_rot_e.htm]
Post #245,972 by CRConrad 2/23/06 5:41:58 PM Reply	Dunno if I've mentioned this before - one of the previous... ...previous times that particular car dealer has been linked from here -- but large parts of my extended family used to live around Singen; my aunt works there (unless she's retired now). [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Yes Mr. Garrison, genetic engineering lets us correct God's horrible, horrible mistakes, like German people. - [link\|http://maxpages.com/southpark2k/Episode_105\|Mr. Hat]

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